Tools of the Shaman and Plant Medicine | Dmitria Burby

Shamanistic Journey

Will: [00:00:00] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the skeptic metaphysician. Karen, I can't tell you how excited I am about this, episode. 

Karen: You got so excited. He started sounding a little bit like captain Kirk there on the pies. 

Will: I can't believe he's dead, but no, I'm excited because. We've talked a lot or we touched on a lot on the show about shamans buy into shamanic, shamanistic journeys and things like that.

And, but we've never really talked to someone that has firsthand experience. [00:01:00] All right. So how much do you know about 

Karen: shamans? Well, I don't know. I know a little bit, so I have, as, you know, a degree in anthropology, so I've studied all kinds of different world religions and different cultures. Also, my mother's side of the family is from south America and I, you know, back in the day we would go when I was little and I had uncles and my grandfather who was a doctor and oftentimes they would.

Actually into the jungle, be gone on these long trips and they would tell us about some of the experiences they had had with shaman from the natives there. So I've always been really interested in, but I've never spoken with a sham and I've never had this firsthand experience. So I am super 

Dmitria Burby: excited.

Will: Our next guest has been on the journey of discovery, much like us here on the show.

Now throughout her journey, she's been gifted with some truly, truly blessed mystical experiences. And I'm really looking forward to talking about some of those with her. Now these experiences have taught her how to. Within the spiritual realm. Karen, now she's an author and a healer and [00:02:00] she helps people reconnect with their spirit, allowing them to see parts of themselves that have been lost or forgotten on the way to building their regular lives.

Now she spent time studying different modalities and energy healing, traditions of medicine wheel, meditative states, ancient religions. And like I said, she uses these to help people finally rediscover. And I love this. What hole. Feels like, wow. Do you remember feeling.

Karen: Well, 

Will: then our next guest is going to help you with that a lot. Please. Welcome. Dimitria Berbee to the show to meet you. Thank you so much for coming. 

Dmitria Burby: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. 

Will: we are excited to have you believe me. I've been talking. About this interview pretty much all week too, to Karen.

She's tired of hearing me talk about it, for sure. Okay. So I think we need to start at the very beginning, right? When we talk about shamanistic journeys and how you are able to see within the spiritual realm and things like that, it didn't always happen like that. Right? Your story is one pretty rooted [00:03:00] in the three-dimensional world.

So how did you come to this realization that you could. See to the spiritual realm. 

Dmitria Burby: my whole life has been rooted in building the perfect quote unquote American dream life. Right. I went to school, I studied really hard. I went to college, I got an engineering degree and, you know, I thought that was my path.

 I ended up in. Wonderful successful career in digital marketing for 17 years, worked with amazing fortune 500 companies, my whole career. And I got to a point where I just was like, wait a minute. I have all the things in life that should make me happy. I have a amazing family, amazing husband, a great job.

Why am I so unfulfilled and ultimately unhappy? I couldn't figure that out. And so I really made a decision to try and figure out how to be happy. Right. I had all this privilege in the world, so I needed to figure out a way to actually appreciate it. And [00:04:00] as I. Went through that journey. A shaman literally dropped in my lap one day.

Like I wasn't looking for it. I didn't know that it's what I needed. I, you know, it wasn't something I was seeking out, but as happens in spiritual journeys, you know what you need drops into your lap right when you need it. And for whatever reason, I. Just decided that I would take that opportunity and do something totally different than my norm and engage with it.

Will: I absolutely love it. When, when a shaman drops in my lap, 

Karen: where were you living that you had 

Dmitria Burby: access to this shaman? I live in Portland, Oregon. Okay. Yeah. So not like, you know, now, you know, years later I realized people seek out shamans, you know, you go to south America, you go to Asia, you go to different parts of the world to find these amazing healers and one literally.

dropped into my life [00:05:00] and there's nothing else I can think of, but that was divine intervention and it, you know, to redirect me into my car. 

Will: Yeah. We hear these stories all the time. Right? So then Does it mean to be a shaman? 

Dmitria Burby: That's a really great question. And a bigger question than you probably realize, or maybe you realize that I think there are indigenous shamans that I think of as, you know, people that come from these tribes, this tradition that are trained in the collection of the plants that they use, they are, you know, really.

Mentored by other shamans and put on this path. And, and I that's who I think of as a sham and somebody that has really been through that process and guided, there are now schools that you can go to, to become a shaman or to learn shamanism. Ways. And I think there's a lot of conversation around cultural appropriation around that.

And, you know, I think it's, it's sort of a hot topic within the community, [00:06:00] the sort of broader community around what it means to be a shaman and how you actually portray yourself. You know, I don't have a strong opinion on that necessarily any way. Everyone that I've talked to has some really valid points.

But I do think that there is an element of whether you are an indigenous shaman that's been trained or somebody that practices shamonic rituals. I think that they're really, really powerful, however you're accessing 

Will: them. it's important to note, you're not saying that you are a 

Dmitria Burby: shaman. No, absolutely 

Will: not.

It's actually that you actually use shamanistic journeys. You should you use the tool. Within the shamanistic modality in order to help people reach. Best selves. 

Dmitria Burby: I actually, when I help my clients, don't use shamonic techniques. I use I channel and tap into their higher selves and I use some actual energy work, Reiki and NLP to help my clients.

So that's [00:07:00] typically what I do. I, for my own personal journey though, have gone to shamans to have them help me. Gotcha to where I am, but yeah, I think when they're, when clients are ready to engage in that you know, I'm happy to refer them to people offer that. Or oftentimes people come to me after shamanic journeys and are looking for help with integration of their experiences.

Will: To your point, there's a lot of different types of shamans, right? Karen helped me out here the way the peaceful warrior. Thank you. Dan Millman book where the shaman was car mechanic, So what kind of tools have you used? What kind of experiences have you had within this modality? 

Dmitria Burby: So the first this experience where the shaman dropped into my lap, I literally Was offered to come and sit with a group in a shamonic ceremony. And I didn't really know what I was getting myself into.

But I thought, okay, I'll go. I'll show up. You know, I knew there would be some plant medicine of sorts. I didn't really know what, [00:08:00] and I don't normally engage in that sort of stuff at that point in my life. So I really just, you know, went in. Fully trusting, but also very naive about what I was getting into and and showed up and had this really beautiful experience.

You know, they often talk about Chemonics ceremonies as being circles that you sit in. So physically you're sitting in a circle with the shaman and there's so many different types of ceremonies, so it can be anywhere, you know, from. Drumming journey which, you know, help the rhythm of the drum helps you access that spiritual realm.

It could be a guided meditation, more visual meditation all the way to, you know, a lot of the different plant medicine modalities. So, it could be something like tobacco that you are ingesting that is very In the states. Right. But they ingest it in different ways that are very sacred or there's psilocybin journeys.

There's all, you know, [00:09:00] Iowasca Bufo, there's so many other modalities that you can get into in the space. 

Karen: So you keep mentioning plant-based ceremonies. Do they ever. Use animals because the stories that my family told me from Ecuador, it involves sometimes a little bit of blood and it wasn't like a sacrifice or anything, but just, it was more than just 

Dmitria Burby: the plants in the journeys that I have been.

In an experience there has not been any. Animal component to it like physical animal component. There's a lot of animal spirits that are called in. But there's no actual animals. The only re animal related modality that I can think of is Bufo, which is the poison from a toad. And it is.

Secreted from the toad, but the toad isn't harmed in the process. So that's the only, animal-based one that I've, sort of heard of, but There hasn't been any animals or blood in my, in my particular [00:10:00] experiences and 

Will: everything that I've learned from shamans. It's really based around being one with nature and.

The ways of the animal world, the plant world, the spirit world without harming any of it. Right. Being in unison with it all. 

 When someone thinks about Shannon yeah.

The F at least here in this country, in the United States, the first thing you think about is native American medicine, man, who helped the tribe get rid of not just illnesses, but , it was all done. Spirit or not, not even demonic. It was just the ills of the body and the mind and the spirit and soul.

So, yeah, 

Dmitria Burby: I will say Karen, that the way that you're describing that memory or that, you know, information does resonate in that people in ceremony often have energies pulled from their body that then could. You know, go into something. In my experiences, often those things that they go [00:11:00] into are maybe more metaphorically into an animal.

Like I could imagine being in a ceremony where something is pulled from my body, my energy body, and then would be. in the container of maybe an animal that then you are CA able to see it, but it's not actually physically an animal there that you're seeing in the 3d. It might be more of a spiritual vision.

So I think there's some things that you're talking about that really resonate. I haven't actually seen it, like go into an animal and then the animal would be open like that. Hasn't been part of my experiences, but I also, you know, in all fairness have done all of my work in north America and none of my work in, you know, actual indigenous communities in south America.

So, you know what happens in. Each I think culture is probably very different. 

Will: And then getting back to the plant medicine topic you've mentioned some of the things like Iowa, and [00:12:00] we've even talked to someone about toad that you were talking about, patients that comes from and what that does.

In your experiences has that been a tool that has been used to open your horizons so to speak? 

Dmitria Burby: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's not every journey and it's not all, all of them or the majority of them, but definitely engaging in some of those plant medicines would break open.

Barriers that I didn't know existed. So for me, as I used these ceremonies, each one allowed me to access more information about. Who I am and what my role is in the greater universe and how all of it fits together. So going back to my sort of scientific mind, being an engineer for me, it was this really interesting journey to see, okay, who am I?

And then how does this whole universe existence work? And how do I fit into that? 

Will: referencing the works of Carlos Castaneda, for example,[00:13:00] I think his, plant medicine of choice was not Iowa or was it iOS but it was one of the things where you physically had to go through a very disturbing experience before it opened your senses.

Is that similar to what you would. 

Dmitria Burby: Yeah. I mean, again, depending on the modality, I think a lot of it is digging in deeply to yourself, releasing a lot of the things that we carry. And then once you release that sort of shadow that, that people talk about, or the heaviness of some of the trauma that you've experienced, or maybe that you're carrying with you from, you know, generational trauma, then you can start to.

Access that more pure spiritual realm and get a better understanding of how the universe works. At least that was how it worked out for me was I really needed to let go of the darkness that I was carrying through life from. Childhood trauma. I think things that were taught [00:14:00] to me and release all of that and feel really light and free.

And then as soon as I was able to feel light and free, then the experience has started to come where I was accessing these realms, where I was like, I didn't even know this was possible. You know, I was raised Catholic. Traditional Catholic religious. And so going into these states and experiencing some of these things, some of them were really relatable, but some of them I just was unprepared for and took some time to try and figure out what was going on.

is 

Will: it just for clarity, when you say that it took some time to get rid of the shadow self and to be lighter and get the experiences. So I'm assuming that this did not happen on the. Several times that you actually use plant medicine or was it in the, the first time you tried it, you went through it and then experienced it.

I'm just curious how many times I'm going to have to do it before I can actually experience something. 

Dmitria Burby: So it's different for everybody. I will say. For me, I had a really, really profound experience. The first time I did [00:15:00] it you know, When you talk to people that are in the space of plant medicine, you'll often hear people talk about an ego death, and that can come at sort of any time in your journey.

For me, it happened, it started that first time that I tried some plant medicine and it was really profound. I literally felt like I was dead. And I remember laying there thinking, oh my gosh, I'm dead. This is kind of cool. Like not like, holy shit. Oh, I'm sorry. Holy shit. I'm dead. Like, this is a problem.

I was like, this is amazing. Right? Like it shifted everything for me. And that was not a normal reaction. Right. Like for me, I would have been like freaking out. Even that, that reaction to, oh, look, my body's there and I'm dead and being like, that's pretty cool was so altering for me. It was a complete shift for me.

And then what came from that understanding [00:16:00] of, oh, well, when you die, you just transform into this other thing. You're not actually dead was, you know, a pretty big awakening and then the journey of, okay, what comes after that? So that was sort of the first chapter, if you will, of, oh, I died. And then the next chapter was, oh, you actually have to go back and do a bunch of stuff to get this cool state.

You need to go and deal with your trauma. And so I spent. You know, a couple of ceremonies dealing with some of the deep trauma that I had experienced and, and really lifting that out of my energy body and clearing that. 

Will: Two things that occurred to me as you're talking one is Karen. I think we found our show title.

Holy shit. I'm dead. And second, will you keep talking? Working through things during these sessions, how do you work through them? If I thought you just took them, you threw up a lot and then you [00:17:00] went on a trip. That's not how it works in, huh? 

Dmitria Burby: I know. Right. So yes you do. So for, for me, my personal experience was that I, I went in knowing that I wanted to deal with some very specific traumas.

And what happened was. And this might be like a lot to consume if you're a skeptic, but. As I was purging. So they talk a lot about purging. So instead of throwing up, it might be that you're throwing up physically, but it really does feel like you're purging your body of something, some entity. And so as you're purging whether that is, you know, throwing up or sometimes it can come in the form of like, 

Will: I'm glad you said that and not something else.

Dmitria Burby: That happens too. You know, that definitely happens. But it can be crying. It can be like a big Yon. Some people will laugh and that can be their [00:18:00] perch. So it happens in a lot of different ways. And the, the real key to it is that you're releasing that energy. That's been stuck in your body. 

Karen: you're talking about, or you had mentioned experiences or trauma that happened to you as a child.

Can you purge things from past 

Dmitria Burby: life? Yes. Yes. So you will see if, you know, if you engage in, in some of these ceremonies, you will see people purge things that have been handed down for generations and generations and generations, or even collective healing happens in these ceremonies. So, it might be something around, you know, Patriarchy and the role that women play in society, it might be something around child abuse.

So I've, I've sat in a ceremony where the whole ceremony was really to help children that had been sexually abused. And it was really interesting cause you don't go into the. Ceremony space knowing that that's what's going to happen. But oftentimes a theme will [00:19:00] come up that you are helping this collective healing that that's taking place.

So there's a component usually for me of personal healing and then healing others in the setting and then a collective healing that happens. So there's sort of three components and they're usually. Connected in some way amongst the three levels. 

Will: Wow. So you use the word ceremony the, the thing that comes to mind, right.

You hear, and this is terrible, but you hear about the peace pipe ceremony. You hear about the the, what is it? The sweat lodge is when you use the term ceremony, what is it that you are specifically. Referring to, 

Dmitria Burby: I am referring to the ritual. So I think if you go to traditional religion, you go to church, there's a mass, right.

There's components of that mass or ceremony or ritual that take place. And there's an order to it and there's a [00:20:00] purpose to each component to get to an end result. And when I think about a. Ceremony. There is a lot of intention with each component that happens. So oftentimes you will come into the space and whether that's together physically or sometimes virtually with the pandemic.

And and you sit in a circle. And then there are, there's always an altar. There's always clearing of the energy with Sage or Palo Santo or some, some way to clear that space. And then there's the setting of intention. So this is really important. It's a really important step for each person to help guide their journey.

Even if it's a drumming journey or a guided meditation, you know, setting the intention about what you are trying to get out of that. Space and really focusing the experience because if you don't set an intention, you could be taken like down [00:21:00] left field that you had no idea that you were needed to deal with.

And maybe, you know, it's not really what you wanted in that. Right. 

Karen: that'd be hard if you had never experienced that before. I mean, how do you set that intention your first time? 

Dmitria Burby: Yeah. My first time there was a little guidance, right? Like, like the guide had said, Hey, you want to come with some sort of intention.

And so in my mind, I had been processing that and going in, you know, two hours before my husband was like, Hey, do you, did you set your intention? And I was like, Oh, no, but maybe just, I think I want lightness in my soul. I just said that I didn't know what it meant at all. It just like came out of nowhere and he was like, that's, that's a weird intention does that.

And I was like, I know, but it just like, that's it, I guess, you know, like not thought through it all and then. I went through that first ceremony and coming out of it, I was like, oh, this is what it feels like to have lightness in your soul. Like, I feel physically light, like a burden has been lifted. [00:22:00] I feel like I have light emanating from me.

I was like, oh, this is what, what that intention is. Even though it didn't make sense to me in the beginning, it definitely made sense to me after. And it's sort of set the trajectory of my. Of my work and what I do, it's all centered around life. 

Karen: that sounded like a beautiful intention and, and kind of general, can you set super specific intentions?

Like how specific can you 

Will: get? Like, can you say, I want a puppy, 

Dmitria Burby: you can. But the, the real key is to set an intention, not unexpected outcome. So the difference is, you know, an expected outcome is I want a puppy or I want to solve. Specific problem or issue or challenge that I had an intention is I would really like to call in healing for myself.

I really like to feel at peace. It's a li it's a broader ask. And what it does is it allows. The process to happen [00:23:00] for you, however you need it to happen. Because I think oftentimes as humans, we're like, we know best. We know what's right for us. We can dictate that I, what I need right now is I need a puppy.

But really, and you might need a puppy, but what, what really in the ceremony happens is whatever it is that you actually need to happen will happen. And that might mean that you don't get a puppy. You might get. Something else, you know, you might experience some other animal medicine that comes in to help you through something, but you know, so setting your intention broadly enough to allow true healing to happen.

And how long 

Karen: does the ceremony last? Like how long would you expect to be in 

Dmitria Burby: there? It depends. So a drumming journey. Can be 15 minutes. And you can go in with a facilitator and go deep into that experience and then come out and have beautiful insight about yourself. Insight about a [00:24:00] situation or challenge that you're having, or.

whatever it is and be done and go about your day. You can also have experiences that are 12 hours or, you know, longer, depending on. Sort of what, what you're doing. And then, you know, there's these retreats that you can go to that are, are week long. And you're doing multiple modalities back-to-back-to-back to back to get the results.

I like to think of them as like extended spa. Days with him hard work. I'm sure that's how people think about it normally, but that's how I envisioned it in my mind.

Will: So I do want to get into really the experiences that you've had with these modalities that help to. Your spiritual journey, adventure, whatever you want to call it, just to clarify something that occurred to me while you were talking with Karen, some folks believe that shamanism is a religion rather than a modality.

What, what's your stance on that? 

Dmitria Burby: That's a great question. I don't know that I have a stance per se. I think you can think of it as a [00:25:00] religion and you can think of it as a modality as well. I don't think that they have to be. Separate in that, right? You can practice the rituals of shamanism and follow sort of their teachings.

And I think that that can be thought of as a religion. But there's also very healing modalities and, and sort of nuances of that that can be thought of as more of practice. So I don't have an answer to that necessarily. Well, you're all about the labels. 

Will: Can't tell me, I need, I need, I need to know what's white and what's black.

Dmitria Burby: I think that's an interesting comment though, because it is, it doesn't matter. The waters in my own mind, even, even sort of the blanket of spirituality is, is kind of muddied, right? You can, you know, be spiritual, but also practice certain. Rituals, if you will, like some people are like, I need my crystals. I need to do this thing with the moon, clear them, do this, this and this.

And then it can [00:26:00] almost start to become. Religion because there's some dogma attached to it. And so for me, religion has rules or certain steps that you must follow. That's the dogma, right. But there's also a way to be spiritual or practice shamanism that doesn't have that dogma attached to it that is more loose and you're feeling into it.

And there's more intention behind it and less rules. When I think of Christianity, when I think about my Catholic upbringing, that is all rules, there's very little room for self-expression or exploring what it means for you. It's really about following the process as it's laid out. So to me, that's fully religion, but when you get into spirituality, it gets very muddy because there isn't.

Well, one way that is the way that practice. 

Will: now we've come to the part of the show where a lot of our audiences are going, come on, get to the fun part. Right? All right. So you have done plant medicine, you've done all these kinds of ceremonies, but at the crux of it, [00:27:00] it changed your life because of certain experiences that you had within this modality.

I am dying to hear some of them. 

Dmitria Burby: the first one was dying. Right. So that was the very first experience. That was pretty big. 

Will: I would say that's probably the biggest one.

Dmitria Burby: I was like, oh, it can't get bigger than this. And then it did. So, yeah, I knew he was going to get better. So yeah. So the. Was this death experience that was incredible and, and such a blessing, which sounds very weird to most people I'm sure, but it was such a blessing for me. And then that same journey was purging out all.

It was literally coming out of my body physically. I was, I was puking. Up this black substance. And it was literally coming out of my body and it was so interesting cause I'm like, I haven't eaten today. Like, you know what, where is this coming from? Yeah. 

Will: Yeah. Metaphorically coming [00:28:00] out, 

Dmitria Burby: physically coming out of my body.

I was throwing up into a toilet.

Will: Yeah. 

Dmitria Burby: Yeah, it was it was very jarring to say the least, because it's not like anything I'd ever consumed or seen come out of my body. And yeah. I mean, it would 

Will: probably want to see you come out. 

Dmitria Burby: Yeah, it was like black tar liquefy, black tar coming out of my body. And it just kept coming and it literally felt like I was I was purging out of my body, this heaviness that I had carried with me.

And it was almost like purging out memories if you will, of some of the things that had happened to me. And so that. You know, at that point, I was like, did not know anything about shamanism? Like I said, like this whole experience dropped in my lap. I was invited and I decided to go and I didn't do a lot of research.

Will: And then afterwards [00:29:00] you said, what did I 

Dmitria Burby: do? That was, life-changing figure out what just happened to me. Cause I don't have any context. I mean, I wasn't spiritual at all. Right. Like I had the Catholic upbringing. I. Went to Catholic school. So I had a broad religious understanding education, if you will, but I didn't actually know anything about spirituality.

I hadn't really read a lot of the teachers, the teachers that we have that have written books, like I hadn't done that research for myself and so going in, I just really didn't have any context for what was happening to me. I just was like, this is super trippy and you know what? I wasn't a skeptic, but I was like, Caught unaware that this was a possibility that you could purge out and like heaviness from your body.

So 

Will: just to clarify my own mind, cause you know, parents says I'm all about the labels, right? And you said it is like you were purging memories. Was it like memories? To your mind as [00:30:00] you were purging or it just felt symbolically these are the memories coming out of you. Yeah, 

Dmitria Burby: it was more symbolic. It wasn't.

And part of what I went into that ceremony with was I had known that I had been sexually assaulted as a young woman. But I had blacked out, so I wasn't actually. A hundred percent sure what had happened. And I hadn't been able to get to it through traditional therapy, but I knew that it was something that I was ready to deal with.

And I had made that decision that I was ready to deal with this. And that's when the shotgun dropped in my lap. And I was like, yeah, too crazy of timing to not do this. So I went in and I had said like, I'm a little nervous to remember. I don't actually know that. I want to remember. I'm worried that it's too much for me to handle.

And they said, you know, you'll be. Given what you can handle, but you won't be given more than what you can handle and it will happen perfect for you. And I said, okay, I will trust you. 

Will: And that's a great, great point to make, [00:31:00] because my first thought is I have a very low tolerance for foreign substances.

Like I'm one of those, you know, one hit of a joint and I'm gone. I don't need to smoke it. Right. So when doing things like this, where There's a high probability that I'm going to get on the journey much faster than others. Is there a possibility of causing harm to yourself by doing too much of it?

Dmitria Burby: I'm sure there is, I would hate to say that there isn't, I think in anything you could do too much of something and, and get into a space that's not safe, but I think when you're doing these things in a really sacred setting yeah. Guides, right. These shamans that really know what they're doing and have helped people.

They live their life to help people. They have a really keen understanding of how much they're giving you what you really need. They know how to help you through those really hard moments, because it's not easy. It wasn't easy for me to get to the place where I was actually [00:32:00] purging. Right. There was a whole process of, I don't even know what was happening, you know, of it like scraping out of my body a little bit.

And they were there to help me through that process. So I don't recommend going out, buying some substance that you as a plant medicine or can be used as a plant medicine and engaging with it on your own, 

Karen: are the showman that are helping you through it? Are they also taking the plant medicine or are they.

just not 

Dmitria Burby: depends on the shaman. in my first experience, I had three sitting with me. One was completely in the medicine with me and then two, I think one took nothing. And then one just had like a little tiny bit of the medicine. So just like just enough to sort of tap into the energetic field for them.

You know, three people, I think there were probably 10 of us sitting in this ceremony together. And so that's a pretty good ratio, you know, everyone's going through their own experiences at different times. So if there's three people that can help, [00:33:00] you know, three different individuals, then that's, that's a pretty good ratio.

Yeah. I just didn't 

Karen: know if there was someone that was completely. 

Dmitria Burby: Sober sober. Yeah, 

Karen: sure. If someone had a bad reaction or I dunno, and even an allergy could happen. Yeah, no, that's a 

Dmitria Burby: controlled situation. It's definitely a controlled situation. It is not like you're at a house party and I have kids in high school and college.

So I'm thinking like it's not like one of their house parties or like a frat party where everybody is trashed and you're just like, You know, nobody's in control. There's definitely, it feels very safe. I think that's a big component of it. Is that at least for me feeling really. Safe and in a really trusted environment.

Right? Yeah. 

Will: And I love the fact that you keep referring to it as medicine. It was about this nice visual where this is something that's good for you. That's good for your soul. That's going to help you through something. It's not, you're not going on a trip. [00:34:00] Right. You're, you're using this to help you in some way.

So 

Dmitria Burby: yeah. If you've experienced it, you know, that it's medicine because I talk about this a lot with people where it's like, okay, we've all experienced. Well, most of us have experienced going to a party drinking way too much, having an amazing time, waking up the next morning, puking your brains out and saying, I'm never going to drink it.

Like at some point in your life, maybe it was college. Maybe it was last week, whatever it is for you, whatever your age or like situation it's happened. And you're like, I'm never going to drink again, but it was so much fun. The party was fun. Like you were, you know, having the time of your life, whatever.

These plant medicines are the opposite. So imagine having a night where you're like, this is the worst thing ever. I'm never doing this again. It is painful. I mean, not physically painful, but it is like work, right? Like you are. Going deep inside yourself, digging out those things that have been, that you've been struggling [00:35:00] with and that are challenging for you and you have to face them.

And that is a lot of emotional work that is happening. And it's not something that you would go and do to like party, you know? So. The flip side of it is then you get like weeks and months of like this afterglow, where you, and for me, I'm like, it completely changed my life. So it's not just like weeks and months.

It's like, oh, I went and did this. And now it's literally changed my whole existence for the rest of my life. 

Will: when I did Reiki the minute I felt it for the first time, the first, the very next thing I wanted to do is learn more. I want to go back and do more. So I would see that might be the reason to want to go back, right?

Because not because you want to go party more, but because you want to experience that life change. Moment again, but it is to your point it's traumatic, brilliant, no better way of putting it, that it is a traumatic experience you go through. So it's not for the faint of heart.

Right. You went into it sight unseen, unprepared, [00:36:00] and perhaps not the best way to go about it, but some people might think it might be the cause you had no preconceived notions of what was going on. 

Dmitria Burby: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I don't have a recommendation for there's no right or wrong way to do this. Right.

There's no right or wrong way to rediscover yourself. And that I think is what is so important is that everybody has their own path. And for mine, apparently it was through engaging with the shamans and, you know, doing some plant medicine and then also. Doing tons of other work, right? Like doing other types of journeys, it wasn't all plant medicine really digging deep into.

What's been written about spirituality, spirituality, listening to all of, you know, all of the content that's out there. Both past people and the current, you know, spiritual leaders that are out there and trying to understand that and, and getting to the place that I am today, but other people, I really, I really believe there's a path for everybody.

And it might be through Reiki. It might be through a [00:37:00] traditional religion. You know, it, it happens for people all the time in, in tons of different ways. And I think one of my big lessons is there is no judgment and there's no expert expectation that it will happen for you as it's meant to. And. So I think the people that are listening to this, like maybe your path we'll, we'll go to plant medicine or engaging in a shaman in some way.

And maybe not right, but but you're definitely on the path they're already there. You're here listening to this. 

Will: Absolutely. And it comes to the main theme of the show and we talk about it Karen, all the time that there are many, many paths. And the whole point of the show is to show you all the different paths we're out there to see which one resonates with you.

Because as long as you you're on a path, it doesn't matter what path, but just choose a path that resonates with you and go forward with it. Because at the end of the day, all the paths lead to the same place. It's just a different road that gets you there. 

Karen: And this [00:38:00] one sounds like more dramatic. I think, of a birth experience when you come out and your light.

So maybe that's the people who we need that something more impactful to really show them. Yeah. That's easier. 

Will: Wouldn't quite work for them. If you're out there and you're listening, I'm looking for a showman. I think this experience. Awful and yet, and yet amazing same time. think I'm at the point or we talked about it too much now I need, I need that proof.

I need that feeling. I need, yeah. I've wanted to ask to project. No such luck. I've wanted no such luck. I wanted to figure out what my past. No such luck. Well, I can't, no, I need it. Now. I'm saying if, if there's maybe that maybe. The shaman path is maybe what I need. I need to have that experience so that I can, 

Karen: but maybe part of your lesson is patience.

So 

Dmitria Burby: maybe you would do that. 

Will: You have to drop that 

Dmitria Burby: then jail. I will say. I do know. So there's a couple of things. I [00:39:00] do know a lot of people that will go and sit and don't feel anything they're like, it was kind of boring. I sat there for a while and nothing. So that, that is a possibility. I believe that a lot is happening energetically with those people that they just are not aware of, but they might go and have an experience where they feel like nothing has happened.

So that just know well that that's a possibility for you. I'm hearing you 

Will: loud and clear to me too. You're saying that will you, there's a lot going on inside you. That's why you're not feeling anything. That's where you're not going into asset protection because you got to figure out what's going on inside you.

I get it. I get it.

Karen: You have to let these experiences or your path or your modality find you, you can't just say I'm going to do this. Oh, it didn't work. This didn't work. That's just going to ultimately make you more skeptical. 

Dmitria Burby: But also, you know, I'm here for a reason. So maybe you were connected for a reason who knows 

Will: Jimmy, you're the way I'm already following you on Instagram.

So I'll definitely continue to follow [00:40:00] you. And hopefully that, you know, maybe something will click, but you're right. Karen, I am looking too hard because I really, I. 'cause I, I know I, the more interviews we do, the more we're proved to ourselves that there is absolutely without a doubt, something other than this three dimensional world we're living in, but I have not seen it.

I've not seen it. And I really would love to. So I just need to chill. 

Dmitria Burby: Well, I, I think that there is something, at least in my own experience, very powerful from going from. The knowledge that something is out there to actually experiencing it and knowing it, there, there there's a shift, right. Between knowledge and knowing.

And that for me was the, these experiences of action. being pulled through this vortex, into this other dimension, 

Will: right. I love that image of you being pulled through. We're running really short on time. I want to talk about two things with you. I want to talk about the book that you're, that you wrote this coming out really soon.

And I also want to give us your most of your craziest experience [00:41:00] through this process. Cause I know we, we keep teasing it, but we don't quite get to it. I know dying was pretty crazy, pretty crazy. But what would be the thing that, that impacted you, the experience that impacted you the most. 

Dmitria Burby: I had a pretty intense experience where I turned into a ball of light and was being thrown around by angels.

So, this is pretty out there. I know, but I went to heaven and angels were like playing. It was like a a field of clouds kind of, and they were out just playing and I showed up and they were like, oh, we've been waiting for you. And I turned into this ball, like a beach ball and they were throwing me around and I was like, this is amazing.

And then I had to figure out like, why I had that experience, like, what was the point of it? Information that I was supposed to take from that. But that was a pretty far out experience for sure. One that is less far out, maybe more relatable is that my husband's brother passed away [00:42:00] and right after.

Passed. Well, as he was passing, I, he was in an operating room having emergency surgery. And as that was happening, I got pulled into the emergency room with him and got to witness his soul, leaving his body. And dad they're greeting him and the angels that were there, it was, it was really personal and very intense and plant medicine involved.

Will: you, you're saying you were present as he was greeting his angels and things like that. On the other side, Wow. That's 

Dmitria Burby: intense. Yeah. And at the time I wasn't sure what was going on. You know, I was hoping that they were there to support him to, you know, help be there for him as he went through the surgery.

I didn't actually realize until. Weeks later, what, because he went onto life support. So he went into surgery, he went onto life support. And so his body was kept alive for another week or so. [00:43:00] And it was not until, you know, I had processed much later that I realized what actually happened in that moment.

Wow. 

Will: Wow. So I mean, these are incredible experiences. I have to ask the question that I ask every day. Could this not have been just chemicals in your brain, firing, responding to the plant medicine. And it's not necessarily an experience that you're actually having, but literally your brain just firing neurons that make you hallucinate stuff like that.

Dmitria Burby: It's possible. But then I would have to ask the question, why are my brain neurons firing in that way? And coming up with this information? If there wasn't something that was true and valid about it. So how it actually happens, it could all be a hallucination. It could just be in your mind, but there's a core truth that you're experiencing.

And I almost, for me, it doesn't matter how I'm experiencing it. Like what part of my [00:44:00] body is creating that experience. It's more knowing that those experiences are real. 

Will: And that's pretty close to the exact answer that almost everybody gives us, but there is. That question. Right. But then you also think about what does that, is it a DMT, right?

DMT that what they call it, the God particle or something like that, that maybe right. We are all three-dimensional beings, right? We're not only are three body being, but we're, we also have a physical body and somehow the spiritual plane has to interact. Just like everything else. Right? Find something within our physical realm to enable to us, to transition to the spiritual realm.

So wondering if maybe if it is a neurons firing, maybe it is a DMT, that's triggering a that's what you're experiencing. So, I don't know, I don't either, but, but as a, as a want to believer, I'm all on board. I think it sounds awesome. Yes. That, [00:45:00] that explains it to me, but I still don't know 

Dmitria Burby: if that makes, yeah.

Once you have the experience, once you get pulled through that vortex, then there's no denying it. I can completely understand skepticism until you get to that point of experiencing. And then there's just no way to deny what happened. It's really 

Will: fascinating, which is why I say I really need to be pulled at that down.

Dmitria Burby: We'll work on that for you. That'd be awesome. Everybody that gets pulled through 

Karen: that vortex have a similar experience, at least in that part. Like that would be maybe one way for you to. I believe it 

Dmitria Burby: well, so it depends on what modality, I mean, my understanding is that there is some modalities where the experience is more consistent.

And then there's other modalities where you might have to work through some of your own layers before you get pulled through. So. It kind of depends on your choice, but we can talk about that. Well, [00:46:00] 

Will: that sounds good. I just need, I need the on button, press the button. That's all I need. Alright, so, so talk to us about your book, your book that it's coming out in September, right.

Returned to the light within and in a much longer title after that. So just keep it there. Tell us about it. What, what prompts you to write it? 

Dmitria Burby: It is about my spiritual awakening. So it's, it's the last seven years. When I wrote it of going from working in corporate America, I was working for Nike and and really setting out to learn about myself.

And then I get into each of the ceremonies and specifically what happens in each of them. So I know we didn't have enough time to talk about all of them, but I do get into really detailed. Information about what I experienced and how I interpret that and how it changed my life. 

Will: That's super interesting to me. Once it comes out, I will add it to our show notes. I'll add a direct link so people can access it directly. So it's easy for them to perfect. \. I know that you work a lot with a lot of people to [00:47:00] help them.

As we talked about find wholeness sounds lovely. So wonderful. So, how do you do that and what does that mean and how can someone get that with you? 

Dmitria Burby: So I really work with a couple of modalities. So in my journey, I realized that I am able to tap into people's higher selves, their spirit. So I work with people to channel and help them bring more conscious awareness to the parts of them.

They've been ignoring or have forgotten about and help integrate that into their lives. So there's one component of just, oh, you know, there's a part of me that I haven't really been paying attention to. That needs to be. Made more aware. But then there's a whole other part of the work, which is actually, how do you make space for that part of yourself in your life?

Because I think most of us have pretty full lives already. And so if you, all of a sudden are like, oh, there's this part of me that I need to find a place for. And be able to express that there's work to be [00:48:00] done to say, okay, how do I gently make room for that? So. My specialty is really bringing that to awareness and doing that work without blowing up your life.

So, so often when people go through a spiritual awakening or find this new part of themselves, they like blow up their life and they're like, oh, I'm going to be this now. And let go of all these things that are actually really valuable and beautiful to them. And so it's really about finding that balance.

How do I just create a little bit more space to let this part of myself be expressed and keep everything else in 

Will: balance? So great that you specifically talk about not blowing up someone's life.

I'm really good at blowing up my life already. I don't need anyone else. Very good at it. It's great. It, it sounds truly amazing. So, I'm going to go ahead and put your website links and social media links in our show notes. So people can come to you directly. If you have any other questions or want to reach out to them, [00:49:00] Directly I encourage you to do that.

I'm, I'm super intrigued, so I'm sure we'll, we'll be in contact, but thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story with us and with our audience. 

Dmitria Burby: Thank you so much for having me. It was lovely to meet you both. 

Karen: Well, likewise, and I just liked the kind of, and note that the blowing up thing, it doesn't have to be all or nothing because I think a lot of people think it does.

And that's scary. So you can incorporate a little by little, you know, 

Dmitria Burby: make it, would you say peaceful easy. It should be easy. That's the thing. Everything in life should have a component of ease. If it feels jarring or like too difficult, then you're probably approaching it in a way that yeah. You know, maybe not aligned for you.

So let's find the path that makes it easy for you. 

Will: for those who didn't catch the innuendo, she's talking about me.

Okay. Thank you so much for being on the show. Really appreciate it. And Karen, as always, thanks for coming on board and thank you listener for coming along on this journey of discovery with us. [00:50:00] We'd love to continue our conversation with you on Facebook and Instagram.

So please find us on@skepticmetaphysicianonbothofthoseplatformsoratskepticminutephysician.com. If you'd like to connect with our guests today, you can visit her website, luminance healing.com or Dimitria berbee.com. I will add those to my show notes. So you can have direct access to them it's easier to just hit a link or you can follow her on Instagram at luminance healing.

Her upcoming book returned to light within is being released in September of this year. You can rest assured we'll have a direct link to that in our show notes for your convenience, as well as always, if you know someone who would benefit from hearing the messages we shared on this show or any of our others, I hope you'll consider sharing us with that person.

It will help grow the show and may just help someone else to come to learn, to discover what wholeness feels like the easiest way to share the show. You guessed it. Visit skeptic metaphysician.com. Not only can you share the show directly from the page, but you can also access all the direct links I mentioned.

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Well, this was a full show, so that's all for now. Thanks again for listening in and we'll see you again on the next episode of the skeptic metaphysician until then take care.