Paranormal Conspiracy Theories

Will: [00:00:00] Karen, in the world of metaphysics, spirituality, and the paranormal, there's lots and lots of conspiracy theories, right? Mm-hmm. . Now we've done a pretty good job of staying away from most of those, so we don't fall into that controversial water problems that people have, right?

But we can no longer. as of today, delay our conversation about things that make you go, Hmm hmm. You know why? Why? Because to help us breach this topic, we finally have someone who's an expert who can talk about stuff. We have the man who has all the answers to all the questions, every question, and if he doesn't, he makes them up.

Sounds like you, . He does. We get along so great. He does this with the help of a couple of his fans on top of. We are also bringing another friend ours who specializes in a little bit of chaos. Ooh, I like that. This one's gonna be fun. .

Karen: Sounds like it might be chaos here.

[00:01:00]

Will: There's this story that really reminds me of some of the stuff that I've gone through over the past who knows how many years, and I thought I'd share with you. During a research experiment, a marine biologist placed a shark into a large holding tank and then released several small bait fish into the tank as you'd expect.

Your shark quickly swam around the tank, attacked and ate the smaller fish, right? Well, the [00:02:00] marine biologist then inserted a strong piece of clear fiberglass into the tank, creating two separate partitions. She then put the shark on one side of the fiberglass and a new set of bait fish on the other.

Again, the shark quickly attacked this time, however, the shark slammed into the fiberglass divider and bounced off. Undeterred. The shark kept repeating this behavior every few minutes to no. Whatever he did, he just couldn't get to the fish. Meanwhile, the bait fish swam around, unharmed in the second partition, and eventually about an hour into the experiment, the shark gave up.

Now, this experiment was repeated several dozen times. Over the next few weeks in each time, the shark got less and less aggressive and made fewer and fewer attempts to attack the bait. until eventually the shark got tired of hitting the fiberglass divider and simply stopped attacking altogether.

Well, then the marine biologist removed the [00:03:00] fiberglass divider, but the shark didn't attack. See, the shark was trained to believe that a barrier existed between it and the bait fish, so the bait fish swam wherever they. Free from harm because a shark was programmed to feel that he couldn't get to them.

Many of us, after experiencing setbacks and failures emotionally give up and stop trying like the shark in the story. We believe that because we were unsuccessful in the past will always be unsuccess.

In other words, we continue to see a barrier in our heads, even when no real barrier exists between where we are and where we want to go. So keep in mind that every day is a brand new day, and the only barrier that really exists is in your mind.

Karen: Sounds like it might be chaos here.

Will: Welcome to the Skeptic Meta Physicians.

I'm Will. And I'm Karen. And before we introduce our guest, I wanna introduce a special guest host that's kindly agreed to join us this [00:04:00] time around. She's a voiceover actor and former radio gal who happens to also host the Keeping Up With Chaos Podcast. Welcome, Joslyn, Rocky to the.

Jozlyn: This is gonna be so fun. Thank you.

Will: Yeah. I'm not sure if you know what you got yourself into, but yeah, we're gonna say it's fun.

Jozlyn: Yeah. I'm not sure

Karen: well, I just have to point out that you said gal people don't say

Will: gal anymore. So just, so just to make, uh, make it clear, this was directly from her bio. Oh, I'm sorry. She sent me the bio. She calls herself a gal, so. Okay.

Karen: Well that's different . If you're a self-titled gal, that's one thing.

Jozlyn: Lady Chick Gal. You know I answered all

Will: Jo, tell us about your podcast real fast before we introduce, Koji. Cuz I know that a lot of people out there, just the name alone, keeping up the chaos brings up a lot of questions.

Jozlyn: It's a fun podcast, you know, for entertainment, and it's all about just conversation, bringing on all different types of people, you know, just to have a conversation and, and just sort of normalize chaos. So, and it's amongst friends. We bring on new friends and we had you guys on, so it was like, you know, it's just, it's just a fun [00:05:00] podcast.

Will: I love how you say you normalize chaos. . I think that that's, if, if there's ever a thing that we need to do more, it's Normalized chaos. Mm-hmm. . So thanks for the work that you're putting in. Thanks for your service.

Jozlyn: Yeah, you're welcome.

Will: All right. Now our official guest is also a writer and a producer, but he's in Hollywood. His film and television projects have played on Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, peacock, Roku, you name it. It's been on it. Now. He's written eight feature films that have been produced, including The Commando, a feature film starring Michael J.

White and Mickey Rourke, and. Most importantly, he produces and hosts the unofficial official story podcast with his co-hosts, Jennifer Field and Duane Perkins. Welcome, Koji Steven Sakai to the show.

Koji: Hello. How are you guys?

Will: Doing great. I can't wait to to talk to you, about all things. Unofficially official

Koji: And I look forward to talking to you, all things unofficial, official, as.

Will: Cool. Now [00:06:00] your show is really fun, really interesting, a lot of conspiracy theories, a lot of, all kinds of different, and not just conspiracy theories. That's not really fair to say, but to give you an example of the topics that you cover, the show that I was on, We discussed the possibility of Britney Spears being a secret agent for George h w Bush, if that gives you an idea Wow.

About the topics on the show. Mm-hmm. . Right? And you've covered things like, are the grays the best aliens because they're Asian, right? So, so you, I mean, you talk about all kinds of fun stuff and really the whole plot, I guess, of the, of the show is that you. You come up with different theories, and then amongst all of you, you decide what the real theory is, whether it's real or not.

That's

Koji: You know, I love paranormal. I love true crime, I love conspiracies. I love all of the things, and I'm, I've listened to every single podcast that is related to, I watch all the TV and the movies and you know, the problem with all the shows is that they always do the same thing over and over and over.

And they say the same [00:07:00] facts over and over and over. And, uh, as you mentioned in my bio, I'm a writer and producer, and I thought, I can come up with these theories about what really happened to these things, you know, and it could be more fun. , like, I'm just kind of making it up. Um, so that's what we decided.

We decided to get a group of people together who were into these kinds of things and just talk about these conspiracies and paranormal and true crime stuff. And then just make up our own stories about what really happened, and then vote and decide which one was the actual true story about what really happened.

Karen: I love that. I was just gonna ask you how you came up with your stories, but, uh, you're making 'em up. I like it.

Koji: Well, you know, we try to, we try to like, you know, we try to look around the facts of whatever the situation is so we don't just totally make it up. But yeah, we try to figure out what the facts are. Then we, based on nothing else, we just create stories around it.

Will: so even your guests, you have them come up with a theory behind it and then you all, now of course, when I was on your show, It's easy for me to say I had the best theory just because, you know, [00:08:00]

Karen: I'm sorry, am I laughing too loud? Yeah, you a little, A little

Will: loud, Karen. A little loud. yeah, so you, what got you into metaphysics and the paranormal, that kind of thing?

Koji: Well, you know, I've always been really interested in all these, uh, things. Um, but I, I think I've always come at it from a slightly different point of view than most people, you know? Um, I went to my first U F O convention when I was like seven or eight years old. Um, I was always really into kind of those kinds of events and those kinds of places, but I always looked at it from a social kind of political.

Framing as opposed to kind of just this paranormal and just looking at it from kind of a interesting side note kind of thing. So like for me, for example, when I look at like the 1950s and I, I study what happened? Then they talk about, you know, Space Brothers, space Sisters, and they take you to the space and they, you look out and you see, like, you know, they show you the world and say you're messing it up.

And then in the sixties it became these gray aliens, right? And they're doing like anal probes and sexual experiments and it's really tragic. And this is, you know, and in the fifties it coincided with [00:09:00] kind of peace and everything's kind of gray. In the sixties it was like the civil rights, Vietnam, all these things were happening.

The women's movement was growing as well. and then now you look at kind of these abductions and you see that they're about people who are being abducted in as our neighbors, right? These hybrid aliens are abducting people, and they're taking them into the Dodger Stadium and asking 'em if this is what.

It's like to watch a baseball game, you know? And so what that tells us now, really to me, what's interesting is it tells us now that we're so afraid of our neighbors, that they could actually be half alien hybrids, you know? And, and to me that's what's really interesting about the paranormals. It, it speaks to a lot about what, who we are as people and humanity and our society.

And that's what I really like. I, I, I'm kind of agnostic. I, I don't discount everything, nor, nor do I believe in everything. And I, I enjoy kind of being in the middle.

Jozlyn: Now, do you think your neighbors are part aliens? Like, I mean, because I've walked down the street and I've questioned some of my neighbors before. You know

Will: Everyone has that shit. Neighbor.

Karen: What's that guy? . Yeah.[00:10:00]

Koji: Sometimes I think I'm the alien, so you know, I don't know.

Will: And we've talked about that on a show, right? The star Seeds. They say that they're, they've come from different planets mm-hmm. And things like that. Mm-hmm. . So I, I, I think a lot of the stuff that's going on in the world nowadays, they, they say that what reptilian race is actually taking over our government, which is why we're in such a big mess.

Cause they're trying to fuck everything up or whatever.

Koji: Yeah. And Mark Zuckerberg's allegedly a reptilian. So just fyi,

Karen: Oh,

Jozlyn: also listened on your last podcast, I think you talked about Elon Musk being a reptilian possibly. Yeah, I, I, I paid attention,

Karen: So they're smart. The reptilians.

Will: Well, I mean, yeah, you have to be smart to be able to muck things up as hardcore as they've, they've mucked it up, but.

Koji: But if, if it, if it's gotten out, then they haven't been that smart.

Karen: Oh, that's true, unless

Koji: So

Karen: for a really, really long time.

Koji: and you know, , even within the race, you know, or within aliens, there's, it's really interesting cause they're a racial hierarchy. Like, so there's the Nordic aliens, which are like the Nordic looking really tall, [00:11:00] really good looking, uh, aliens.

And they're always seen as the best and most the ones that don't hurt you. Aliens. And then there's like the gray aliens, which are seen as Asian because they're, you know, they don't, they're small, they're hairless, they're kind of robotic. And so, and this is a real theory, people actually

Karen: did you say it's hilarious?

Will: Is it hairless?

Koji: They're hairless. Yeah. Um, yeah, so it's really interesting to kind of see like a lot of these stereotypes and, and our projections being put onto kind of these other things that I think are interesting.

Will: I do find it interesting that the Nordic ones, right, the ones that are the be the best looking ones and the, the tall, beautiful looking ones are like the, the Caucasian ones and everything else that's akin to, the minority races, are little and withered and shriveled up and ugly and

Koji: Yeah. And doing bad things. And being traumatic. Yeah. It's always the, it's never good. No one sees a gray alien and says it's good. You know,

Will: Yes.

Jozlyn: I was gonna say like, do you believe in the shadow people you know or like, yeah. Or what is it? The [00:12:00] Shadow ranch that's out west, I mean, or,

Will: Oh, skin walker.

Koji: Skin Walk Ranch. Yeah.

Jozlyn: Ranch. Is that that's connected to the aliens?

Koji: yeah. So I'm actually of the School of Belief that everything's a topa. Have you guys ever heard of Topa before?

Jozlyn: Mm.

Karen: I have not.

Koji: So topos are where, this is a Buddhist term where basically people put um, enough energy into something and everyone thinks about it, talks about it, writes stories, makes movies, and if there's enough energy put in, it becomes real, right?

So the Jew uh, Jewish tradition has something like this, right, the go ones, but, um, but I really believe that the more energy everyone puts into these, They become real. So for example, Slenderman 1999 was the first time that it appeared in an online contest, photo contest. And then after that, people literally believe they see him now.

So how does that happen? It's because everyone's putting so much energy, so much thought, so much work. It becomes real. So that's, you know, I, I tend to believe that like the skin walker ranch, the shadow people, ghosts, you know, a lot of [00:13:00] things are like that. We're putting so much energy and thought. Cause I do believe we're powerful as, as human beings and spiritual.

and that, you know, even aliens and all these things. I believe that that topa is usually the answer that I go for for most, most paranormal.

Jozlyn: Yeah, I was, I was curious cuz my brother's totally into Skin Walker Ranch and he was saying that, they were saying that it's like a portal possibly to, you know, connect with and conver, have conversations with possibly aliens or other lifeforms that are out there. But I totally see that and with YouTube these days, I mean, I mean, the amount of information that kids get in, you know, uh, from a collective hole.

I hear about Slender Mans, I hear about all that stuff from my kids and it's like they be believe, they get a lot of information from that stuff and they believe in it, and then it be, could become real, like what you're talking about, the

Koji: I mean, well we people see Bigfoot who are not crazy and then, but nobody sees, finds evidence of Bigfoot. So how does that happen? It's either that they are crazy or that they do see something right?

Karen: so we just interviewed someone who's an expert on Bigfoot, and his take is very interesting. Yeah, he [00:14:00] explains

Will: all of that. It does explain it all away. So if you've not listened to our Bigfoot episode, you totally should because it gives you all the answers. Mm-hmm. , it leaves nothing to your imagination.

Jozlyn: I find it so odd that we have a Bigfoot citing, well it's called skunk foot, I think, or skunk something in Florida. I'm like, why? If you're that hairy, why are you here? Like, that's just too hot down here to be a Bigfoot like creature, you know?

Will: that's what they

Jozlyn: hotspot.

Will: That's why they call it a skunk foot. Cause you're so hairy. You're all sweaty and disgusting. And you smelly

Karen: Oh,

nobody can see, but they can smell 'em a while away.

Will: Koji, what, what kind of stories are the ones that energize you the most? Like what are the ones that you decide?

This is the one we're gonna tackle on the show this week.

Koji: That's a good question. To me, it's the stuff that people haven't heard. You know? Um, as I was saying, in a lot of these paranormal shows and podcasts, they always talk about the same stuff, like Roswell or, you know, um, those kinds of shows. So I wanted to cover topics that aren't as familiar, but one of the things I found in my show was that,

I'm [00:15:00] not really a paranormal podcast. I'm more of a comedy podcast . And because the, if you're really a paranormal person, you're not listening to ours because we kind of make fun of it, even though I'm a believer. That's, that's the irony of it. Um, but, uh, so, so kind of in the beginning it was kind of just trying to find weird, random stuff and then it became, let's like, talk about everything because a lot of my audience, a lot of our audience aren't people that know about a lot of the things.

everyone who actually listens to Paranormal would. So like Skin Walker Ranch is definitely something we wanna cover because you know, if you listen to Paranormal, you know about it, but if you don't, you're like, what the hell is Skin Walker Ranch?

Karen: right? Mm-hmm. ,

Will: right? It's skin walker, ranch, dog, man, right? All that kind of stuff. Those, those new, new Cryptids that are coming out.

Jozlyn: so you believe in paranormal though? Like you are a believer? Cause I was just, you know, I was trying to figure out if you are trying to make it seem. not seem like, but like that you believe in it and you're proving it, right? Or you're, you don't believe in it and you're proving that it's not real. You know, because I don't know about you, but sometimes I have like this glow earth, um, [00:16:00] ball in my kid's bathroom, and I, it's fine.

And then like, you know, someone takes a shower in there and it starts, you know, going all glitchy, and I'm like, oh my God, there's a ghost in here. I'm like, no, it's just the steam, you know, messing with the glow ball. But I mean, do you be, you really do believe, because I can talk myself right out of it,

Koji: Well, I, I think I'm agnostic, so I don't believe like just wholeheartedly. I'm kind of over the deep end, but I'm also not total skeptic. Like nothing could ever happen and nothing is real. So, you know, um, I, I believe that aliens could exist. I don't know if they exist or not, but I, I could see them visiting, you know?

Um, The for ghosts, I definitely believe in ghosts more than I do in a lot of the cryptids. I have sometimes a hard time trouble, I mean, sorry to hear a former guest about Bigfoot, but sometimes it's harder for me to believe some of these cryptids, um, you know, some of these other stuff that, uh, I find interesting and, and I always wanna find out more.

So I, I would say though that, you know, if I had to lean one way, I probably believe more than I don't believe, because why would I listen to podcasts? Why would I horror [00:17:00] stories if, if I didn't believe on some level, some of this.

Karen: So of all of your interviews and your stories and these conspiracy theories, is there one in particular that's a favorite or that's been most interesting or fun for you guys to talk about?

Will: Britney Spears, uh, agents. Yeah. In, yeah. I wasn't asking you. Oh, oh, sure. His answer. Anyway,

Karen: go ahead.

Koji: that, that was definitely gonna be my answer, but now I have to quickly think of a new answer. No, um, You know, all of 'em. I mean, honestly, all of 'em have been really interesting to me, though. The one that really hit home the most was actually our nine 11 episode, which we didn't have a special guest.

It was just me, Dwayne, and Jennifer. And the reason that was the most interesting was that Dwayne, my co-host, he's a really wonderful comedian, he was talking to me about how he believed these conspiracies, about nine 11. And it blew my mind because I'm totally. A nine 11 truther and I thought that pretty much everyone around me wasn't either So it was such a shocking moment to, you know, in the middle of the episode to be like, wait, what you believe this, you know, , you believe all this stuff. And, and it was just kind of [00:18:00] shocking to know that, you know, like, you know somebody for, I, I've known Dwayne for maybe 10, 15 years, and then to find out. on air that, you know, he believes in a lot of this stuff.

You know, he's not, I mean, I'm not saying he's crazy, don't worry. But, you know, like, just to find out that he's, he, he's entertaining these things because he, he didn't, like, for example, he doesn't entertain that Britney Spears is a government agent for the CIA and George Bush. Right. But he did

Karen: What

Koji: So that was, that was probably one of the most interesting episodes for.

Will: for some the people who don't know, can you give us some idea what these conspiracies, uh, nine 11 conspiracies that Duane believes in entail?

Koji: Yeah, so there, there's a, first of all, there's a lot of conspiracies about nine 11. Um, and they say nine 11 is the beginning of a lot of, uh, kind of the QAN on and the flat earth thing that came back. A lot of that was like kind of the beginning of that. A lot of people distrusting the government, so there's a lot of conspiracies.

There's a conspiracy that, you know, first of all, there were no planes. like that crash into anything that's like a kind of a first conspiracy. There's other conspiracies. The United States government knew [00:19:00] about the, the planes that were gonna happen and didn't do anything to stop it. There's another one that the United States government is the one that, that funded it and did it, and probably the most persistent one is that building seven, which is the, a small building, not, you know, not the first two world trade centers that we saw on tv.

The seven, the seventh building fell, and a lot of thing pe. A lot of people think that was demol. That was. Self demolished by the government to bring the buildings down or all the buildings down, and that was the proof that the planes didn't hit building seven. So why, why did it go down? Is kind of this proof.

And so Dwayne, I believe, was entertaining the notion that the United States government brought down the, the buildings on their own.

Will: I would assume that's because they wanted to into Iraq and, get control of all the oil fields and all. And, really the, the other conspiracy that I heard about it is that, Jeanie's company, they wanted to go in there and, and make all this money on the reconstruction of Iraq after the invasions.

Um, so now I will

Koji: And also, um, the Patriot Act as well, right.

Will: right, mm-hmm. right now, I will say I was in a control room [00:20:00] in a news. when, when nine 11 happened and as I, I watched the plane hit the second tower, so I know for a fact Duane, that there was a plane. Cause I saw it. I watched it myself in my own eyes.

Koji: actually you don't know this, but it was a, it was on the Sony lot and it was all part of a,

Will: oh,

Koji: like Quinton Tarantino actually shot the movie that we watched on tv.

Will: yeah. I, I thought it seemed a little wonky, a little softer on the

Karen: edges. Oh, you saw that string on the plane,

Will: That seemed like they did the original Star Trek in. Right, exactly.

Koji: Yeah, but you know what's

Jozlyn: were covering up the alien invasion that was coming. Yeah. Or the zombies. I know you're like zombies.

Koji: I do love zombies. You know, one of the things about conspiracies that I find really interesting is that, you know, I'm much less believing of conspiracies than I believe in kind of the paranormal stuff. But, um, the reason, you know, to me the conspiracies are really interesting is that. We humans want to have an explanation for all bad things happening.

We want a person to blame, we want a reason for things. Whereas usually it's just a lot of really [00:21:00] bad things happened all at one time, you know, and kind of in a serious of bad events and it becomes really bad. And I think that that's most likely, cuz we all know that if you tell one person something, that it's no longer a secret.

So to think of like how big a conspiracy would have to be in order for us to, for the United States government to bring down buildings of that. and do it without it ever getting out. Truly getting out would be crazy, especially nowadays, right?

Will: And, and yet they've been doing it with the evidence of the UFO's existence for years and decades. Right. So you just never know,

Karen: man. Never did make it to the moon. That's right.

Will: I heard that. Yeah. That was also. One the same Sony lot actually is, uh,

Koji: it was. It was, uh, that was, um,

Will: Now having been in that same newsroom, I did see some things that made me go, Hmm. Right. And, I'm not an expert in forensics or explosives or anything like that, but the towers did collapse really strangely. As I'm watching, [00:22:00] the entire newsroom is in complete silence. Watching the tower collapse in and itself the way it did, it was very strange.

It, it was almost as if. There were explosives set inside the building. I can't confirm or nor deny that, but it was, it was strange, which is why I, I can see why some people might think, well, maybe there's some foul play here. Especially because, Shane's company stood to make a lot, a lot of money going into reconstruct Iraq

Koji: Well, I mean, disaster, capitalism's real, right? The whole idea that people make a ton of money on disasters. Like the companies that made a ton of money off of Katrina, they made a ton of money after nine 11. All those kinds of things. I mean, there's definitely money. Money to be made for for sure.

Will: so then it, would you say that that's your favorite conspiracy theory? I know it's your, your favorite episode, but was it, is there a conspiracy theory that you find even more intriguing than that one?

Koji: Have you ever heard, have you guys ever heard of the Betty and Barney Hill case?

Will: No, it sounds awfully familiar. Definitely ringing

Koji: in the early 1960s, um, they were in interracial [00:23:00] couple coming back from a unscheduled vacation to Niagara Falls as they were driving. Plane or, uh, U f O was allegedly following them. And then they Scott out. He tried to shoot it, of course, because that's what you do. And then they eventually got taken and then, uh, or they both got taken.

They were both abducted. It's really the first abduction case that, um, that people talk about when, when you think of modern abductions, you generally thinking of what you heard from the Betty and Barney Hill case, but people don't know it. Um, I find it really, really fascinating. That was actually the genesis of the unofficial official story because my first thought when I first heard it was they were trying to cover up their interracial relationship by talking about UFOs and that people would stop talking about them, about being interracial and start talking about them being UFOs.

The crazy thing is when I was doing research for the. , that was one of the theories that people have online , was that people are, that it was a coverup for, because they were an interracial couple in the 1960s when obviously it was sometimes illegal to be [00:24:00] interracial. But, uh,

Will: I have, I have heard of them before and probably on another show, and I did hear that same conspiracy theory that they're, they were trying to cover up their, their forbidden love,

Koji: because if you listen, you could actually hear their hypnosis. and it's really, really fascinating. I mean, if you've never heard their, their hypnosis sessions where they're recounting it, it's really fascinating.

Will: they did. Wow. The interesting thing is they did it separately, right? They, they were hypnotized separately, and they, they had the same stories. So it, it just makes it that much more interesting cuz they, they had to have really talked each other into, okay, this is what we're gonna say, right?

Koji: I mean there was a lot of weird things like the clock, their watches stopped at the same time they had the same amount of missing time and all these things. Um, so it was a very, I mean, to me like that, that's like one of the most interesting cases to me in terms of the U F O. Cause people usually think of Roswell, but Roswell was just a plane crash, right?

Or a balloon crash, whatever, , if they want the official

Will: I don't know. I saw those little being little, little bodies,

Koji: Actually, that's interesting. Do you know that people think that it's actually, okay, so [00:25:00] there's two conspiracies I love about Roswell. One is that they were, um, they were secretly special needs people from Russia, the Soviet Union. Have you ever heard of that?

Will: God, my god. I've not heard that

one.

Koji: this is, this is where the theory comes from. So people, so allegedly Joseph Stalin heard what happened in America after the war of the world's B. and he's thought, oh my God, we should like cause chaos. What if we sent aliens to them? And so he put 'em on a balloon, he put special needs people on a balloon and put 'em in a crash into New Mexico desert thinking that's gonna cause alike riots everywhere.

So that's one thing. The other theory is that, uh, they were lit little Japanese soldiers who got lost in the jet stream

Karen: Oh my

Koji: and then they crashed. The Japanese one actually has some merit in that. In the night in the World War ii, they did send these balloons, these large balloons called fubu. And they were dropping bombs from really high.

They dropped a bomb in like Oregon. Um, so there were balloons, but this was, you know, that was like 19 43, 44, not 1945 in New Mexico. So there's a difference. But, you know, I always find, [00:26:00] see there's so many conspiracies. We could talk about conspiracies all day for every single case,

Karen: Yeah. Oh my

gosh.

Will: you mean to tell me there was actual a Japanese balloon that came over Oregon and dropped bombs

Koji: Yeah, there's a document, there's documentaries and, and it's, it's proven. It's called Fubu, f u g u, and there are, there are these balloons, and I think, quote me on this, I believe someone was killed by one of the balloons, but it was, you know, it, it was such a terrible weapon because it, you know, you, you're, you had no control over where the balloon goes and you kind of stuck really high.

It's like it wasn't a good, it was kind of a desperation.

Karen: now is there one conspiracy theory that's like the most ridiculous one in your opinion?

Will: Actually, you know what? Before you answer that, let's take a break and we'll be right back.

Karen: the most ridiculous one in your opinion? I mean, for

Karen: now is there one conspiracy theory that's like the most ridiculous one in your opinion? I mean, for me, I'm thinking of the flat [00:27:00] earthers, but that's just me. Cuz you can kind of prove that , and I'm like, you're not sailing off the, you're not falling off the end when you, when

koji_recording-1_2022-08-16--t06-03-52pm--60a6648fbe6c5f0878af8737--willrodriguezfl: you're

Will: on a boat, just get on the fugo balloons and you're gonna see that it's, it's

Koji: There's, I mean, there's so many. You know, I, I think what's interesting to me, one of the most interesting conspiracies are out every, every major politician, major actor. Musicians, they're all relate, they're all aliens, right? They're all reptilians or they're all robots. Um, if you look hard enough, you, you could find any, any celebrity and put robot next to their name, and then you'll find somebody talking about how they're a robot or find out how they're , how they're a reptilian alien.

Um, so I think, you know, I think all those are, all, those are super, super fascinating, um, to me. But the flat earth, the interesting thing about the flat earth is we think flat earth is a modern thing. It actually started in the 1800. and it has kind of gone up and down

Will: I kind of understand it better then than I do now,

Koji: they already knew then that it was a globe too.

So as as ridiculous back then. It's [00:28:00] now

Will: but you don't have like satellites and stuff that kind of prove that you're, you know, so I can understand a little better nowadays if you still believe the earth is flat, then. Wow. Uh, yeah. Um, not, I'm not anyone who's listening who believes that the earth is flat.

I fully support your belief system, and you're welcome to believe in anything you want. I, I just don't see how I'd love to. In fact, if you're out there and you believe that Earth is flat and you wanna come on the show and talk about it, I would love to have you, because I can't imagine evidence you have or what thought process you have that will make you think that.

So please reach out to us if you're interested in that.

Koji: Well, and what's

Will: you

Koji: interesting about.

Jozlyn: Yeah, I was gonna say you're a skeptic of the flat earthers then apparently like.

Will: Yes,

Karen: for for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yes.

Koji: interesting about the flat earthers are all, all the conspiracies is that it's very much like a cult in that, you know, you'll, you'll get the, the more you talk about something, the more you get separated from your family and friends, right? And then all of a sudden you only talk to the people within your.

Group, which is AKA cult. So it's the [00:29:00] same thing for Q Andon Flat Earth. There's like, if you go on Facebook and say, I'm a flat Earth, you'll lose like a lot of friends. And then eventually if you keep posting it, no, you will. And I mean there's like a, there's a phenomenon where they talk about flat earth Thanksgiving because they're no longer invited to their relatives houses or children's houses.

And so they spend the Thanksgiving by themselves and they share pictures of their Thanksgiving at home because they're by themselves. And you know, that's like a very common cause. I mean, if you think about it like you. If you go to, if you go to Thanksgiving and the person's talking to you about, you know, anti globe conspiracies, after a while you're like, can we not talk about this?

You know, , and then you get annoyed and,

Karen: to the Americas. They didn't fall off and that's why they have Thanksgiving like, that's just so ironic.

Jozlyn: They made it.

Koji: No, no.

Karen: they,

Jozlyn: the land

Koji: we're, we're, they were, they were still on the flat plane. It was just, uh, one really

Karen: oh,

Will: just a really long flat plane

Koji: With ice on the edges of it,

Karen: Oh, it's ice.

Koji: It's ice.

Jozlyn: Okay.

Karen: wow. [00:30:00] See, I never knew that there was ice, and now I'm thinking of, what was it?

Game of Thrones. The ice wall

Will: right. Sort of thing. The North Wall, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jozlyn: When you were talking about celebrities and being robots or aliens, like I think of time travel. My kids always believe that there's like these celebrities that have time travel. Do you believe in that or is that also like kind of a conspiracy type thing?

Koji: Oh, that's all conspiracy. But Elon Musk allegedly was a World War I pilot and there's a, there's a picture of him allegedly as a World War I pilot. The thing was that I thought he totally looked alike, and that was really shocking that I thought they looked exactly alike. But then my co-host said I was racist because, Not all Caucasian people look alike,

Will: That's

Koji: they, to me, they totally looked alike and I could see them being the same people, but my cos did not believe it.

Jozlyn: And now I'm gonna have to go look at that picture.

Will: I know, but, but you do hear about people like pictures where a, where a guy has like a digital watch on way back in time and things like that. Mm-hmm. . Photoshop. Photoshop, [00:31:00] Photoshop. Least, least call when you're doing it. Oh, sorry,

Koji: Well, you know, like they'll all say things like, how did the, how can the pyramids been built so long ago? Like, that kind of technology. You're like, well, you know, they, they, they weren't stupid back then. They could figure out stuff too.

Will: Right. And, and aliens help

Jozlyn: it.

Koji: The aliens

Karen: I just got back from doing a shoot at the Edgar Casey a r e institute here. And, um, he was just talking about when, when he was channeling, he knows how the pyramids were built and it's all in the reading, so if you really wanna know,

Koji: Oh, interesting.

Will: Check out Edgar Casey. Yeah. Now, one conspiracy theory that I've, well I'm not sure if it's a conspiracy theory, but, but one theory, one, Paranormal thing that you used to hear about all the time, you don't hear about anymore at all, like I haven't heard a thing about it in decades, is the Bermuda Triangle.

Do you remember that? Oh yeah. What happened to that? Did it just like no longer become a triangle or something? It sucked itself

Karen: up.

Jozlyn: I turned into a circle, , I

Koji: I think part of it is that there's [00:32:00] not as much ship travel as there used to be. Right. Um, even though I know planes go down too, but nobody really believes it. But the, the interesting thing there is a, on the opposite, opposite side of the planet. So if you go through the planet on the opposite side, there's an Asian Bermuda triangle. So there's there's

Will: there

Karen: really?

Koji: Yeah, they're allegedly, there's another Bermuda triangle

Karen: You mean if you go along the straight, long, flat line to the other side?

Koji: No, no, you have to go through, it's like on the other side of the globe.

Jozlyn: It's flat ice. Flat

Koji: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, sorry. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, yeah.

Will: wait, on

Koji: Yeah. There's not a globe. It's a flat plane. I'm sorry. Yeah.

Will: but that was one of my favorite stories cuz I, I grew up in Puerto Rico, so I was right on the triangle and whenever we flew from Puerto Rico to Miami, we flew over the Bermuda Triangle and it was all exciting.

Like, are we gonna make it? Are we this, is this the time when we find out what's happening in triangle and then radio silence? Like total radio silence. I haven't heard anything about it at all,

Koji: I think they've done studies where it's not more, there's, you know, that area [00:33:00] doesn't get more, um, plane crashes or boat miss missing boats than anywhere else. Statistically, I just think that they got, there is more, um, there's more press on the, on the cases that have gone there, you know, because there's famous cases of like, pilots going missing and we hear the, we hear the pilots going missing.

So there's a lot of things like that.

Will: Every party needs a pooper,

Jozlyn: I thought the area was connected to aliens. Like there might be like an alien ship buried, be deep down and in there. Right, and it's like then they are coming and going and land. It's like a landing pad or something. I don't

Will: Well then the new theory now is that the whole hollow earth thing, right? That there, there, there are portals inside in places, in the water that, that UFOs are coming in and out of. But then, uh, apparently there's this whole, like, you go into these caves and there's a whole subterranean world,

Koji: I, I've seen that movie. It's called Godzilla and King.

Will: Well, yeah, , yeah, that's where Godzilla and Mother came from.

But we can go down this massive rabbit hole now, but there, there's even [00:34:00] talk about, a catastrophic event that's coming in in a couple, like five, 10 years or something like that. And the government is actually building out these cities, subterranean cities that are going to house them so that that's how they're gonna, survive the cataclysm.

They're not telling anybody cuz they can't fit everybody underneath it. So, I mean, there's all kinds of stuff that you can look.

Koji: Can I just say that in a future society, they definitely need screenwriters and producers,

Jozlyn: Right

Koji: you know, so somebody like myself, I'm not gonna say somebody, you know, somebody like me would be perfect for such a place. So if anybody's listening, Yeah. And my family too. My family, my dog, my son, we all, we're all needed, right? Like you need stories,

Jozlyn: What I think you're talking about is a zombie apocalypse. That's what I think you're talking about. That it's gonna really happen. That we need to be saved from all the humans are gonna have to play, we're gonna have to hide some. That could be another conspiracy theory.

Koji: It could

Will: well, yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. But I think this has something to do with the sun going Nova [00:35:00] or something like that. Uh, but I also heard along the same lines that this is why so many alien abductions are starting to like ramp up because. First and foremost, we've talked to people who say there are hundreds of different alien races.

There's a whole galactic federation mm-hmm. that is watching over us, and they're just poised waiting that if we can't ascend ourselves and, and help ourselves and they're gonna, at the last minute, they're gonna come in and grab us and help us out. have you heard about that?

Koji: Yeah, yeah, definitely. There's always been, there's always been that element of, especially in the 1950s, there's always been this element of like kind of saving the world, saving the earth, saving us from ourselves. Um, generally a lot of, uh, like in the, in the past, it was the Space Brothers and Space Sisters that they're here to help us, that they're here to make sure that we don't destroy ourselves with nuclear weapons.

I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of similarity. There's a lot of cases with aliens and u uh, nuclear sites, right, where they couldn't, like they UFOs flying around [00:36:00] and they couldn't do anything about it, and all the systems go down and things like that. But yeah, I, I think that there's always been that element of people who believe that the UFOs are good, but.

My personal belief is I remember what happened during colonization, you know, in Americas, and for me, like if I saw an alien, I, I assume it's gonna be bad because usually when you have a higher life form and a lower life farm, it usually doesn't end well for the lower life form. Um, and you know,

Will: you're

Koji: being , just being a coch nerd, just being like a Native American is already tells me exactly how, how it would be for us.

So we'd have to figure out how to be a cockroach as opposed to.

Will: Right. No, that's, that's, that's, that's a great point. I mean, I gotta ask cuz you are coming at this from a very, here's the explanation behind all this stuff, and that's awesome.

Karen: That's,

Will: I relate a lot cuz that's exactly how I was, what, three years ago or two years ago?

Whenever we started the, the show in a lot of ways. are you looking for something that's gonna surprise you that you can't explain? Or are you just to the [00:37:00] point where you feel you're gonna find an explanation for?

Koji: No, no, you, you know, one of the cliches with paranormal stuff is that when you look into the paranormal, the paranormal looks back at you. So I'm waiting for that time for the paranormal to look back at me. You know, I mean, I've had like paranormal experiences or I've been around that kind of experience.

That's not like, I don't believe, like for example, one of the stories from my life is that my, when my dad passed away, my mom and my dad used to talk about how when you're, uh, when one of them passed, they'll tell the other, they'll be okay. . And so, you know, when my mom came home once she was really devastated.

She came home and then she smelled incense in her room when she hadn't burned any incense for a long time. And for those who don't know Asians or Ja Buddhist, believe incense is the way you get from the spiritual realm to our realm. And so she took that as a sign, and I smelled the incense too, and we don't burn incense regularly.

So it felt like a very, like real experience, you know? Um, or other times when, you know, you feel connected to people. Like I knew my, when my dad got sick, when I was. , I knew that it happened even though I was [00:38:00] far away and I wasn't, I had not heard about it. So, you know, there, there are experiences and I felt like, I think I've seen ghosts or been around ghosts, but, you know, I, I just want to, in terms of like all the, most of these stories, for me it's about, again, it's mostly, it's about that political, social, kind of what it says about us as humans.

Because stories are, stories are about us and they tell us about who we are. And as a storyteller, that's what's important.

Will: So then what about something a little bit more esoteric, like reincarnation, do you buy that?

Koji: I love. Those are some of my favorite stories about the people, the children who know so much. Right. And they know so much about, like, they have Babe Ruth swing or whatever. There's a kid who knew us, had a perfect swing as everybody else. Um, you know, and being a lot of the Asian religions have reincarnation, so.

I, I could be, I could, I could be convinced that reincarnation could work, you know, , I'm not against it. I, I think it's, I think it's as valid as anything else.

Will: And then what? Angelic beings and spirituality, things like that in your wheelhouse or No, out of it.[00:39:00]

Koji: Um, I've always had a strong faith, not in one religion, but a strong faith in general. So I do believe, you know, and I think that's probably where a paranormal comes from, is that I believe that things exist, even if I don't see it. So, you know, whether it's God or whoever, it's something that I, I definitely have a strong belief in.

I just don't know if it's, you know, a certain religion or one religion versus another religion. And again, for even for religion, to me it's about what it says about who we are, you know, and the rules and laws that they make. It says a lot about what we believe about ourselves and what kind of people we can become.

Will: Well, I absolutely love your show. I had such a great time being on it. I love listening to it because you guys literally make me laugh out loud every time I, I listen to your show and you, I know you mentioned earlier that the people that listen to your show aren't into that kind of thing because you make fun of it.

I'm here to tell you that's not true because I'm into that kind of stuff and still love your show. So just don't, don't count yourself out. You can be, there's people out there, uh, out there who do have a sense of humor who can take it. It's all good. Oh yeah.

Karen: We, I was talking with someone the other day and kind [00:40:00] of telling him some of the stuff that I believe in and I'm like, oh my God, I sound like a lunatic.

You know? Like, if you don't think I'm crazy, then you know, I'm not telling you this is the truth because I was, sounded like a crazy person. Yeah. But uh, but that's part of the fun of it too.

Koji: Yeah. No, I mean, I, I think what makes paranormal fun is that there is no answers, right? Whether it's right or wrong. There's I, and I think that's where a lot of people go wrong, is that it's like, it's either completely a hundred percent true. You have to believe every single conspiracy and every single thing or everything is completely wrong and nothing could be real.

And my philosophy is like, I don't know. I don't know if it's real. I don't know if it's right, not real. How do I know?

Karen: get to pick and choose

Will: Well, for, for me, I've gotta, I've gotta wrap my head around it could, could it be, how could it possibly be plausible? And I gotta tell you, I, I say it all the time on the show, quantum Mechanics changes everything. It's a game changer. It's suddenly anything's possible. So it, it's a little bit more difficult to discount stuff unless you've been coaching on the show.

And then he explains it for you. ,

Karen: it's all comes down to Britney Spears,

Koji: and as a writer, you know, one of the things I, I know that the real life [00:41:00] is, is always weirder than the stuff that you meet, makeup and every cause. I teach screenwriting as a, a couple colleges and there's always that student, he write, they write the paper or the script, and then the note is that this couldn't happen and then that person's number one comeback is, this happened to me, this is my life, , you know?

Then it becomes really

Karen: is

Will: real story,

Jozlyn: You asked the kids these days, if you've watched The Simpsons, everything that is on the Simpsons show has come true in real life, right? So if you're a screenwriter or in that whole world, sometimes art is, Happens in real life or art depicts life,

Will: we talked about time travel a little earlier on. There's a theory that Matt Graig, who, who created The Simpsons, is a time traveler. That's how he is gotten all those, that, that stuff out there,

Jozlyn: Makes sense. Makes sense.

Karen: Yeah.

Koji: I mean, I do believe that there's like a consciousness, right? Like. Like once, once you put it out there, all of a sudden it gets picked up. I mean, it's like why geometry was, was found, was created in America, as in Europe and Asia around the same time. Right. Or there's these discoveries at the [00:42:00] same time.

And, and it has to be, it can't be that, that we all discovered at the same time randomly. I, I definitely believe that there's something out there. So as a writer, as a creative, when we put it out there, all of a sudden it could.

Jozlyn: I have a quick question. Why zombies? Like what is the, the love of zombies, ripping and guts? And you know, like I know that there's romance behind it and I know you, you write books centered around zombies and um, I think it's cool, but I'm just curious cuz it's like I'm a vampire kind of person, so not really a zombie kind of person.

So sorry, but

Koji: I think it's the survival thing. It's just a matter of wanting like whether I could survive or not. And being really into kind of that, that idea of being able to like have a horror to people and can you, can we hold up in our house and can we, can we survive this, this, this apocalypse, this zombie apocalypse?

And what I say to my son and everybody, if anybody takes anything from anything I said today, this is it. In any kind of world changing event, the number one thing, the number one way to survive is having a will to. [00:43:00] is that you want to survive. There's enough food, water, shelter in the market. Like we could live me and Willow, we could live in a, the Vs.

Down the street, the Safeway down the street for 12 years on the canned food. But what's the difference

Will: glad you, I'm glad you mentioned that because it's just, I'm just reiterating the fact that you need a will

Jozlyn: Mm-hmm.

Will: to be able to survive. You need a

koji_recording-1_2022-08-16--t06-03-52pm--60a6648fbe6c5f0878af8737--willrodriguezfl: will.

Karen: I have one

Jozlyn: Oh,

Karen: Yes.

Will: So keep in when you're making those underground cities and things like that. So

Koji: because a lot of people, they just don't want, they won't want to survive. They just don't want to live. Like, I don't have Facebook. Um, I can't go to drive to work. I can't watch tv, I can't go to McDonald or what, whatever it is, I'm not judging. Whatever it is. They just don't want to live anymore and they'll die.

And the difference is that you have to want to live. You have to, and you that will, will allow you to live. And that's the thing that I'm really interested in, in terms of zombie a.

Will: Mm. Yeah. And for those who don't know, the reason why Giles asked that question, cause we didn't talk about it, the fact that you, you actually write a lot about [00:44:00] zombies like. me. Your debut novel was Romeo and Juliet versus Zombies, for example. Right. And you've got, uh, another more recent novel, which called, zombie Run, and you also did Santa Versus the Zombies.

And, you do have a little bit of a track record with

Koji: Yes. I, I love, I mean, I, I love every zombie thing related thing. My wife just has no idea what, what the. That's about

Will: All right. Wait, favorite zombie movie?

Koji: 28 days later.

Jozlyn: Do you think zombies could be real? Like coming back to the conspiracy stuff? No. I mean, like, could it happen, right? No. Yes,

Koji: I mean, it could, I mean, it could happen, like, uh, rabies is a, is an example. There are examples of z zombie-like viruses in, in other, uh, animal kingdoms. So it could definitely happen. I, I can't say it couldn't happen, you know, but, but hopefully it doesn't. That'd be terrible.

Karen: worms in South America.

Koji: That'd be terrible, but they get in the brains and they make the creatures do crazy things.

Right.

Jozlyn: god. Yeah, you're just validating. My husband's reason why he gets to go to Costco and shop and buy and stock everything up. All the stuff the kids say that they [00:45:00] want to eat and then they stop eating it as soon as you buy it in bulk. So, but we're prepared for the zombie apocalypse

Koji: We're gonna live, my family will live off of spam for a long time. We have a lot of spam

Will: Cause that stuff that stays around for a long

Koji: Yeah, it could la it'll last forever. We'll be on the roof eating spam for the, and then, you know.

Will: But no, my, my favorite zombie movie, if you haven't seen it, check it out. Train to Busan. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. That was a good one.

Koji: That's a

Will: so, uh, Koji, someone wanted to listen to your show. What's the best way? Where can they find.

Koji: They could find an official, official story on any, uh, everywhere you listen to, normally listen to podcasts on Apple Podcast and Spotify and all those great places. Um, or you could go to our website, the www unofficial official story.com and you could get everything there.

Will: And then Jolyn, as someone's listened to your show and G we showed a little bit of your interview skills, but man, you your show is super, varied. Like you talk about all kinds of stuff and it's like listening into a conversation between people that are really interesting talking with each other.

Right. You, you [00:46:00] just come right into it. It's a lot of fun. Mm-hmm. . So how can people find you if they are interested in checking out your show?

Jozlyn: Well, apparently we're, we're not gonna survive if we don't have a will. It's just, so I'm gonna have to get myself a will, but I have a Nicki and I have a, yeah, so you can find me. Um, you can find us at keeping up with dot not And yeah, so we're on all the, normal podcast platforms. That's a tongue twister.

Will: . Yes. Now we're gonna go ahead and add direct links to all of that stuff on our show notes. So if you're listening to this on the radio and you are looking for the links, just go to skeptic meta.com and you'll see that on their episode page.

Just click it, you'll get, get you a one stop shop directly to Koji and Jolynn guys. Thanks so much for coming on and talking conspiracies with us cuz this was so much fun.

Koji: Thank you for having.

Jozlyn: Thank.

Will: And thank you for coming along on this journey of discovery. We'd love to continue our conversation with you on our website or on Facebook and Instagram under at skeptic meta physician.

And if you're listening to this on the radio and you miss something, not to worry, all of our shows, including this one, can be [00:47:00] found@skepticmetaphysician.com, where you could also watch the videos or even send us an email or voicemail directly from the site. We absolutely love feedback and would appreciate hearing from you.

So don't. Now we hope you enjoyed this episode as much as we have. It's all for now, but we'll see you on the next episode of the Skeptic Meta Physicians. Until then, take care.

Koji: Thank you.