Monroe Institute: Mysteries of Astral Projection and Consciousness

Will: [00:00:00] Yes, you might need to do this interview by yourself today.

Karen & Will: Oh

Will: yeah.

Karen & Will: Why?

Will: I think one of two things is gonna happen.

Karen & Will: Okay.

Will: Either I'm gonna faint. from the anticipation of the person we're going to talk to,

Karen & Will: or,

Will: I'm just going to sit back, starstruck and listen to you have conversations because anyone who has listened to the show for any amount of time knows what Robert Monroe and his studies of outer body experiences have meant to me.

And everyone knows how astral travel and the pursuit of expanded consciousness has been and continues to be one of the primary motivations behind the show.

we're bringing the source of all things Bob Monroe to the show. That's right. After almost four years of trying to find answers, we are finally bringing the experts to the show.

And by the experts, of course, I'm referring to none other than Alan Evans, the CEO of the Monroe Institute on the show. Today, I can't stand it. Cue the show open.

[00:01:00] Welcome to another episode of the Skeptic Meditations. I'm Will, and I realize now I've misspoken fairly severely. This is not merely another episode of our show. This is the episode of the show that everyone has been waiting for. If somehow you've not gotten the memo about this incredible organization, the Monroe Institute is the world's premier organization for the study of human consciousness.[00:02:00]

Now, not only do they offer residential meditation retreats, online courses, and research programs for the study of expanded states of consciousness, but they were founded. By none other than the illustrious Robert Monroe, yes, that Bob Monroe, who pioneered studies into out of body experiences among lots of other things.

Alan Evans is the chief executive officer of the Monroe Institute, and she's here today to once and for all clear up all the mysteries of consciousness and astral projection. Welcome to the show, Alan Evans. How are you today?

Allyn: I'm doing great. Glad to be here. Thank you.

Karen & Will: Well, we are so thrilled that you're here. So thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to come and talk with us.

Will: Yes. And I, I know for a fact that did not oversell. So I, I did the lot, no pressure, but wow, do we have a lot of expectations? So,

Allyn: Oh,

Will: everyone who listens to the show knows how much I have astral projection and specifically Bob Monroe's book Journeys Out of the Body was so instrumental into me starting my [00:03:00] exploration into this kind of things.

However, maybe Monroe's book, I have not been able ever to To journey out of my body and I think that might be because in the later chapters he starts talking about the entities and things like that that you could potentially experience and that has freaked the living crap out of me so I don't even know where to begin except for the fact that I know you're here I'm confident.

By the end of the show, I'll be able to fly it on my body. Is that right?

Allyn: Well, maybe by tomorrow.

Will: But tomorrow, I'll take it. I will take it. I've mentioned I've been doing this for a lot of years.

Allyn: So did you read the last book, Ultimate Journeys?

Will: yet. I have it in my closet right now. Getting ready to, to,

Allyn: That book will help you get over your fears

Karen & Will: Oh, good.

Allyn: what he realized, or what, you know, as he matured and had more experiences, he realized that was typically negative aspects of himself, shadow sides. Lessons to learn. So [00:04:00] read that book

Karen & Will: Cool. You might be more

Allyn: and that'll help with the fear.

Will: I was just going to say that it might be a double edged sword, actually,

Allyn: Oh,

Will: because there might be some shadows inside me. I don't know. However.

Allyn: it's a healing process. But, but I will say this. I didn't start with out of bodies myself. I started it in a different way. Bob's way. We believe now, you know, we don't know for a fact because we didn't have a way to measure it or figure it out. But the hypothesis is that it was because of all the work he was doing with the sound technology to induce sleep when he was trying to study do you learn while you sleep?

That was, he got, he got really into that in about the time TV came on the scene. So they were experimenting with all these sounds that were going, you know, in either ear. And that's, so that's what they think could have possibly have initiated those spontaneous out of bodies. So for others like me and other people a lot of us don't have that spontaneous out of body experience.[00:05:00]

Instead we have started a practice. So mine was brain analysis. And it was meditation and then it leads you, it's the foundational work that leads you there.

Will: Right. basically what you're saying is you got to crawl before you can run with it, right? Basically just. Lower your roll and start

Allyn: now some people don't like if there's severe trauma and things like that. Some people can have out of body NDEs, you know, near death experiences. And others will just have it because for whatever reason they're ready. I've heard a lot of people say they had a spontaneous out of body when they were exhausted.

Yes. physically exhausted. But for many of us, it's a practice. It's a, you know, it's something that you are opening up these abilities without even maybe realize it. I wasn't after the OBE when I was doing it. I wanted to be more psychic. That's what I wanted. And, but then that was a side benefit.

Karen & Will: So Will said something about crawling before we run or walk. So let's do that here. We know most of the people in this [00:06:00] space are very familiar with Monroe and it's digit and excited, but we do have some people that. That are new, and they are not going to know about the Monroe Institute. So can you just give us a little bit of a background on that, please?

Yes,

Allyn: he made his money there. And then when that switch to television started, he was like, hmm, do I want to keep doing this kind of thing? Because now it's, it's radio with a video and he just, it wasn't inspiring him. So he heard about this thing about us learning while you sleep.

And he, he already had a team of people. So they set up a research area and what surprised them is they had trouble getting people to go to sleep. So that's when I started working with the sounds that they had, maneuvered, manipulated in the radio business. And again, the theory is that that might've been what led to his spontaneous out of bodies.

But in 1958, he finds himself with his back up to the ceiling, right by a chandelier. And he looks [00:07:00] down and he sees his wife. Then he sees another man in bed with his wife, but it was him. So then he freaks out as most of us would do for the first time. 1958.

Will: especially then.

Allyn: And he goes, you know, so that interrupts that out of body experience and he thinks he's lost his mind.

So he goes on this pursuit. He talks to doctors and he had friends that were doctors and psychologists and psychiatrists or my crazy clear me, you know, help me know I'm not losing my mind. And eventually he was like, okay, I must not be losing my mind. And then he just started to go with it, you know, cause it was happening.

He journaled it. That's where those books came from, those episodes that he journaled. So he, with his curiosity and his wanting to help others have a similar type of experience, that's what led him to create the Monroe [00:08:00] Institute.

Will: Gotcha. And now to, to piggyback off of that, the Monroe Institute might have started with that. And everyone now knows by Binaural Beats. And in fact, I was doing a deep dive into your website and I found a free downloadable sample that you can actually tried it right before we started here. And I got to tell you, I went.

And I've not been meditating I was doing it every day for a long time and I fell out of it for a while. I went to, to your, we came back, I've been trying to get back into it, but I've only done it here or there. I did this time right before we started this interview and I went, I fell so far deeply, so quickly.

You do a lot with sound and trainment and things like that at the Institute.

But there is a lot besides out of body travel, the Monroe Institute does a lot. With expanded consciousness. I mean, you guys do a lot about a lot of things. Can you give us some examples of some of the, studies that you've pioneered and the things that you found?

Allyn: Mm hmm. I want to go back to the technology first. And when Bob started this, he [00:09:00] hired two scientists. He wanted it to be, it was really it was important to him that it was not like a woo woo new age type thing. thing going on. So he was looking for verification. And so as he's having these experiences, he had what he called the explorers, which are volunteers.

They're having these experiences, they're documented and all. But he, he thought, I need to have some researchers on board to help me make this more scientific or, or the review of it. And so he hired Tom Campbell. And Tom Campbell wrote, My Big Toe, The Theory of Everything.

and he worked for NASA at some point before then.

And then he hired another gentleman that's not as well known, Dennis Minarek. Dennis Minarek is who read an article about binaural beats that were discovered in the 1800s by a German scientist. They then like when they read that article, they were like, wait a minute, we can do this too. And that's what led to this binaural beat technology.

And, and then when they started [00:10:00] using it, this Bob Monroe is known to have said, I have a tiger by the tail and I don't know what to do with it because just, you know, just changed everything and they were starting to be able to journey together. And they, so they would have a Tom and Dennis and different, what we call.

They're like Faraday cages, but they're not they're not, they're, I'd say they're partial Faraday cages, so they're not completely sealed but they're, you're very isolated and separated, and then they would be shared journeys that they would have, that they would record and document, and that's when they were like, okay, we have something important here.

Will: And so they had journeys that, they compared notes and they found similarities in them.

Allyn: Yeah, they did. So they would, first of all, they would have to write it down after each session what happened. Then they each had an interview with Bob separately. Then they would come together and they would be like meeting in a cave or, you know, they would, they would have shared hikes on in the forest.

You know, it Shared activity.

Will: Oh, that is, that is cool.

Karen & Will: That's so I was thinking it was, they each had the same experience, but they were together.

Allyn: right. They would see [00:11:00] each other. That happens all the time here. We just finished a gateway, which is our flagship program this week. And I go eat lunch with participants at least once a week. And I hear all these stories. And they're like, we have a big crystal, one of our things that people seem to know about the big crystal out the back and they'll meet at the crystal and they'll see each other and report seeing each other.

And they have written it down in their journals before they come to discuss it. So they would have both written down, you know, that they had seen each other, interacted with each other. You just gave me a message. Sometimes now I'll, they'll tell me I'm giving them messages or talking to them and I don't, I'm not consciously aware of it.

But apparently there's some energetic, you know, exchange that can go out, go on, whether we're conscious of it or not.

Will: You just gave me head to toe chills. That is incredible. I did read of your Gateway experiences and I am fascinated by it. And so I already told Karen, every penny that we get, every spare change, I'm putting it [00:12:00] into a jar because I've got to experience it. If you're listening to this and you're at all interested in this stuff, go to their website and we'll add a link in our show notes to it so you could see what this entails.

You have a YouTube channel where people actually talk about their experiences there and actually shows it with the the check units or something like that. That is actually where you sleep.

Allyn: You sleep there and you meditate there and it's, it stands for Controlled Environmental Holistic Chamber and that Bob loved acronyms. in the back of the books, they're defined because there's so many of them that you have to keep up with. But that was, it's a contained space.

It has a black dark out curtain and it's, it's basically a bed that's kind of in a wall, but you've got a pretty big opening, like a window and then the black curtains there, and then we have the technology being piped in from what we call the control room to each check unit. So it's a shared experience.

Karen & Will: And so the people that are participating in these do they have to have a certain level of, I don't know, experience or [00:13:00] can just like anybody go in and bam, it works.

Allyn: Anybody? You know, okay. So there are different experiences based on what you've been doing yourself. So some people have a heightened experience, like when I was in Gateway, which was 2009. I didn't have some of the, like the spectacular experiences that some of my participants, fellow participants were having, but I also was having experiences.

So it was okay. I just wasn't seeing the big movie in front of my eyes, you know, that the, that somebody that would, people would report different things like that. And actually part of that I now know is based on how my best way to perceive is in that space. And I'm more auditory, kinesthetic cognitive, just a knowing, cognizant.

And so that's a different experience than someone who's very visual when they're in those states.

Will: is there any way if you're cognitive to become visual? Cause I want to see it, but I am cognizant. [00:14:00] Right.

Allyn: my dominant is auditory. So just for example, my own experience, a lot of my meditations, I'm in the dark and I just go, okay, you're going to have to tell me what's going on here because I, I can't see anything. But then I will have other experience. Like you're out of body would be, you would be seeing. dreams. And even in some meditations for me, it appears more like a vignette of a dream, but it's, but I know it's not a dream. So there is some seeing involved, but I'll tell you this. I figured out over the years that I prefer the auditory experience. And the reason I do is because I don't have to interpret if it's just a visual experience. You have to interpret. Now, there are people who are visual would, you know, say, I don't know about that. I prefer my way. But yeah, I've, I've learned that over the years.

Karen & Will: So what is your experience like? you give us an example?

Allyn: when it first started, it was when I was in the early days of meditating, it would be I w I started with symbols actually. So I was [00:15:00] seeing like a flash of a symbol. So maybe a rose or maybe um, a wagon, you know, just something. And that would be, that's how I started this idea of, okay, I got to interpret what this means for me.

Then it went to seeing a word. So just seeing a word pop up and then it went to, I would hear the word. Then I would hear a sentence. And this is a progression. And then later I could hear long, you know, more than one sentence you know, maybe a paragraph or just a message that would make sense.

And it, sometimes it sounds like my voice. And sometimes it doesn't. And then it it's like, I love it when I get words I would never say, and I have to look them up or

Karen & Will: Right, right.

Allyn: where did that come from? And that, so that's validation. Right. And, and one time I saw Latin and I don't understand Latin didn't have the opportunity, unfortunately, to write the whole thing down.

So I don't know what the message was, but I got a couple of the words that let me know it was Latin. But I had that, I had [00:16:00] that knowing this is Latin. And then I'll tell you a gateway, no, it was one of the graduate programs that I attended as a participant after we had a meditation, we, we always come back to discuss what happened.

And one of the participants said they had the, and there was a male and they had this woman just in front of them. They could see that was just crying and just so distraught and speaking Spanish. They didn't speak Spanish. So they sounded it out. Like they were saying, this is what she was saying. And we happened to have somebody who spoke Spanish in our group.

And it was something about she would always love him. Her heart had been broken. You know, it was just this beautiful love letter that, that he, but we didn't know who it was intended for, but those kinds of things make you go, okay, wait a minute. You

Karen & Will: Yeah. Yeah. That's

Allyn: How did we, how did we plan this? Yeah, and so you get these kind of [00:17:00] validations all the time.

Will: Wow. Oh God. That's it. I'm, I gotta go. You gotta go. You know, I gotta go . So. Okay. What time should I get there? and

Allyn: You can start on a Saturday.

Will: But you, I mean, so the cool thing is that you do offer a week long, experience. You also have weekend ones. You have virtual things that people can do. You have, there's all kinds of different offerings, but we're going to talk about that all in a second. When we talk about expanded consciousness, we're talking about Monroe Institute. are you still undergoing research in the Institute now?

Allyn: We are, we're a small team. We have, I would say, one and a half researchers. And for years, we only had someone here for one day a week. And now we've, so we've, we've expanded it, but we also can collaborate with other organizations, you know, to, to help us with that. But we do, we, you know, are looking at our, the efficacy of the sound technology.

The interesting thing about what we do, it's not just the sound technology. You know, there's, there are things that we do that support the sound technology, and we [00:18:00] also train you in a way that if you want to, you can completely step away from the sound technology. So we don't, it's not about just this technology.

That's not what we're all about. It's, it's the whole system and the whole experience. And, and that's, I can't remember what else you asked me.

Will: Well, I was, I was going to ask, do you want the other half of the researcher? Because I can certainly step right in there.

Karen & Will: Okay.

Allyn: so they actually work at the University University of Virginia for the other two days.

Will: Yeah, I'm, I'm happy to. No, I don't, I don't qualify.

Allyn: we like, one of the things I teach energy medicine, so we're working with energy healing. And one of the things we're doing with that is we're doing a study where we are putting EEG my mirror EEGs on participants to see the healer versus the Healy. Their brain patterns are starting to come together during the healing session.

And so that's one that's being worked on in collaboration with, energy [00:19:00] medicine. We do, we just finished up a human potential. Well, we have, we're not finished. We finished with the gathering of the data of the human potential human performance study. So, yeah, we, we def, we always have something going on that we're trying to, you know, improve or demonstrate efficacy.

Karen & Will: Very

Will: cool. Okay. So two things. One if you want to test the brain. Bad side of the human potential. That would be me. I'm happy to volunteer, but secondly, now the one that I might actually be able to help with is, is energy. He, I am a Reiki practitioner. I have been for years and years and years and years.

So any way that I can get myself to the Monroe Institute, I am all about it.

Karen & Will: that is unabashed. I mean, do you

Will: know me at all?

Karen & Will: So I have a question kind of getting back to the, the gateway or the in the curtain and the sounds. Have you had people who, who more than one different psychic abilities open up because of that?

Allyn: Yes. Yes. And so for me personally, [00:20:00] that was, that

Will: bringing the whole family.

Allyn: was my entire drive. Like that was what I was doing. I was trying to learn how to be more psychic, get out the middleman, I would say. And you know, be able to be more in communication with that higher self, Bob called it the total self aspect of, of you. But, It definitely, not only with me, but I've seen it with other people, how it, it does definitely help wake you up, you know, or bring you more to those gifts.

Will: Yeah, as if we needed any more reason to hold each other,

Allyn: Reiki, Reiki is a good one too, to, to help you intensify whatever, whatever you're doing, like whatever I did here, then I added Reiki to it. And it, it was like a a booster to move me.

Will: All of the studies at Monroe Institute. Every once in a while you get information about what's coming out.

And obviously all the work that you guys are doing is. Absolutely fascinating and instrumental And I love your motto. I think [00:21:00] it's just something as simple as wanting to raise the consciousness of the

Allyn: Oh, right,

Will: mean, that is right up our alley.

So that's, that's fantastic. it's very important. And unfortunately these days, sometimes a little bit challenging to do. Cause we're kind of stuck in a little bit of a, of a weird position, when we're talking about expanded consciousness, we talk to people who have talked to us about the nine levels or nine dimensions of consciousness. We've talked about the Hawking's map

Allyn: Oh, yeah, I'm a big fan.

Will: can you help us define consciousness?

Thanks.

Allyn: Oh, that now, that's a tough one. here's the thing. And if Bob Monroe were here, I believe this is what you'd say. That's why we create these situations for you to experience it yourself for you then to figure this out yourself without me giving you a definition. A direction to go. [00:22:00] I only dog measure more than your physical body. You know, that's

Karen & Will: Ah, I, Mm-Hmm.

Allyn: So it's, it's for you to decide. It's for you to figure out, and I can tell you stories. One of the stories I was thinking about when you were asking about enhancing your psychic abilities. I have a friend, Candy Sanderson, who wrote a book called The Reluctant Messenger, and she came here for years.

And then at one point, a graduate program, she was taken, it opened up her channeling abilities. And she has that's been like, I would say eight years ago seven years ago. And it just, it shifted her and she was not doing that before. And just like with me, I would read books in my late twenties, early thirties about all these people that were psychic and were teaching, trying to teach me how to be psychic.

And it dawned on me, and you know, like three books in four books in, wait a minute, how can they teach me? They said that they had this gift from the moment they could remember. So how can they teach me? I'm 30 years old. I don't [00:23:00] have, you know, I'm not perceiving any of that beyond my fifth sense, you know, senses.

So the, the Monroe Institute certainly is a place to do that, whether it's remote viewing, whether it's just, you know, going through the programs that's just opening up in general. It's, it's certainly a playground for that and a, and a place to learn.

Will: Yeah. So I love that because basically what you're saying is, I can't tell you, but let me show you . Right? And that's cool, right? That's like, like, that's like every, every hero in the story. I can't tell you, but I can show you . Well,

Allyn: Right.

Karen & Will: and I think that's important because everyone's experiences I'm sure are. Similar, but vastly different. And so if you're having an experience that's not just like this one, you might think you're doing it wrong and get in there like disillusioned or whatever and quit, which

Will: is why this space is so difficult for people like me, right? I need the pill. I need the lever. I need the button, the push.

I needed to be

Karen & Will: not only that, I

Will: needed to be predictable. I needed [00:24:00] to be measurable. I needed

Allyn: Okay. So you are really in your way here.

Will: I know, I know.

Karen & Will: And the thing is that he has these experiences and, you know, he talks about, he has this thing about how the universe starts out with a whisper and if you don't hear it, then it gets a little louder and then it hits you in the head.

He has had that heck beat out of him and he still needs attention.

Will: So why, why do you think that is? Why do people like me just, even though we're, we're faced with the realization, the knowing, We still have to have that little bit more proof. I I,

Allyn: You know, you're probably, and this is very simplistic, but you're probably more left brain than right brain. You know how they, the more analytical, the more, the thinker versus the creative. But you have. We all have both. But sometimes when we get into that the analyzer, the critic, the reviewer, that's pulling us away a lot of times from the experience.

And so when you're when you're having these [00:25:00] experiences, Try to like talk to that side of yourself and go, just watch, just hang out, you know, cause I need you to observe, but I need you to be quiet. And then you can bring in more of that evaluation later

that could help you like then make a next step and make a next step.

But it, and I think it's fear too, you know, like this, I mean, whenever I, I started at some point when I was getting what I perceived as guidance, I'd go, okay, if I get it, I'm going to take it. And there were times I was, I would be going like uh, uh.

Karen & Will: I'm right.

Allyn: Doing that, you know, and then I would, I would just go, but you know, I, I made a commitment and so I am going to do it.

So it might scare me to do the next thing that I know I'm need to be doing or either my self self evolution or my career, or just to be kind to someone, you know,

Will: And it's funny because my personal motto is, growth begins at the edge of your comfort zone. But I think it's more like [00:26:00] my trying to convince myself to get outta my comfort zone. Because no matter what I do, I'm still Yep, yep, yep. It, I will get there, but not right now. Right. Uh, So you, you are a hundred percent right.

I think fear does play a lot to do with this kind of thing. And I don't know how to get around it. So I'm hoping that some of these Monroe Institute programs might actually help someone overcome that fear.

Allyn: a side benefit is because you're doing all this and, and so basically. benefits of meditation. So it's also the benefit of self evolution. So that's a, that's a a soul journey and a healing for itself. But then if you just take that out and you're just meditating, you're doing these things that change the physical, you know, the physical nature of the brain improved memory you know, just very positive changes.

So, as you do more of this, the brain will adjust and change. And so it also helps with [00:27:00] anxiety, with fear. It also helps with, you naturally have this side benefit of accepting, of trust. Everything's okay. I know it looks like this is a really bad situation and I don't want to be here, but I trust, you know, you just believe there's, there's more at play here and you step into it so much.

I step into it so much now that my body doesn't show stress when I'm in really stressful situations.

people have reported like thinking, and we advise not to do this unless under doctor's care, but people have reported anecdotally that they are able to stop their anxiety meds and other type of medications.

Karen & Will: Wow. That's fantastic.

Will: That is

Allyn: Again, that's doctor's care. You

Will: Absolutely. Yes. Totally understand. Yep.

Will: let's take a break and we'll be right back. [00:28:00]

And now back to the skeptic metaphysicians.

Karen & Will: So I had something that I don't know why just popped into my head and it's kind of a different But I'm just going to ask anyways. So I never thought of Virginia being like this mecca for metaphysics and enlightenment um, from Florida.

Not that that's a mecca either, but I just, but here, you know, we have the Monroe Institute and over near us, we have the Edgar Casey ARE, and I'm wondering, did they, did, did Edgar and Bob, do they know each other?

Allyn: You know, I don't know the history with Bob and Edgar Casey. I know our organizations have worked together in the past. And I think Edgar Casey was older than Bob, but again, I'm, I'm, I'm not familiar with that. But I will say Bob's journey here had, was not based on anything metaphysical, it was more about where he wanted to live and where he thought the TV business would be good.

And he started in Richmond and then didn't really, that didn't jive [00:29:00] with him. And so he ended up moving to Charlottesville area and then found this beautiful land and house in Afton, Virginia. Stayed there for a while. It was called Whistlefield and then started looking for the more land around this area to put this place.

And so that's the Monroe Institute.

Karen & Will: So maybe he didn't think it was metaphysical,

Allyn: Right. We are,

Karen & Will: to the face.

Allyn: are on a big bed of courts. Courts are everywhere. So, you know, there is, I would agree there's something that's probably related to that that's drawing people here.

Will: Yeah. Yeah. Nope. No doubt about it. There's, there's just too much going on in Virginia. Yeah, there is. And, and, and who knew? I didn't know. Because before we lived here, we didn't know. And now we

Karen & Will: know. Now we know. And then we started doing this stuff after moving here, because we were doing this broadcast, like it's just, there's something in the water.

Will: There's something. Yeah. Yeah.

Allyn: you're on a bed of crystals.

Will: has the, has the mission of the Monroe Institute [00:30:00] stayed the same throughout the years? Has it changed? Is it heading in a different direction or are you still kind of moving in the same expanded consciousness exploration,

Allyn: I would say it's very similar to what Bob Monroe, you know, how he started it and positioned it. But the dip, one of the main differences is he felt like initially that if people needed it or could benefit from it, they would find Monroe, they would find him. And as the story goes, as we got closer to, to dying, he realized it was such a valuable, valuable tool that he wanted to get it out there more.

And so, that's what it, that's what was one of his messages. Get it out there. So we, along the journey from when that happened, which would have been 95 is when he died 1995. We still, as an organization, kind of tucked it away and, you know, kept it hidden. And part of that was, you know, how, how you look at what's marketing, what's, [00:31:00] you know, we're a nonprofit.

So I think there was some, just as the different people leading the organization were leading it, just not really sure how to make that work with this type of work.

Karen & Will: Huh.

Allyn: since I've started as the CEO, we've we're taking on a high growth strategy 'cause we really wanna get it out there. We want as many people to find us to know we're here.

Whether they just, you know, use our expand app, which even has a free, you know, subscription because we think any type of direct experience. Is healing for an individual and the more people that can have this the better,

Will: Right. First of all, thank you for bringing up the expand app. We can talk about it in a second, but second of all, thank you for wanting to grow this because when we, we had lived in Virginia for a while, I knew Bob Monroe, I read his book journeys out of the body when I was in my twenties, I'm a little bit older than that, not much, but a little bit older than that now, but I didn't know. That there was a Monroe Institute for many, many, [00:32:00] many years. It wasn't on one of these interviews that we actually talked to someone. So have you talked to someone from the Monroe Institute? I said who's a what is it having to do with Bob Monroe?

And sure enough. And then from that point forward, I never looked. back. But you're right. This is especially now. It's so timely. The importance of getting this out to as many people as possible. We are on the cusp of a human awakening like no other, right? At least this is what we've been told many, many times, many, many interviews.

I think that an organization like you that has spent so many years entrenched In the exploration of expanded consciousness for the good of the human population has to be at the forefront of all this. So anything we can do to help spread the message, I hope you won't hesitate because that's, we are on, we are team Monroe.

Allyn: Well, thank you. And we are, we've got a lofty goal. When I took over, they already had this goal, but they weren't measuring it. They weren't [00:33:00] tracking it. It was just something we would say, and that is we want to reach 1 percent of the world's population. And so then as when the board and I first met together after I was hired.

We said, wait a minute. What, what do we want? What are we going to do with 1 percent of the population? Like, what are we trying to do with them? And that's when we said, okay, a direct experience. So that's a meditation or a program, you know, something that could lead to transformation. And then we go, then we decided, well, we should put a timeframe to it.

So then we added 2032 and now we are tracking it. Now we're behind a little bit, but I'm expecting that we're going to catch up because we keep collaborating with people. We keep doing these interviews. So, we're, we're on a mission.

Will: Well, now that you've been on the Skeptic Metaphysicians, you are golden. You're going to hit that next year.

Allyn: Well, and then I also think the other thing I think is we're 1%, we're one, I mean, we're one organization going after 1 percent and we have, like you mentioned, you know, other organizations and other individuals who are saying the [00:34:00] same thing. So. If we don't miss our, if we miss our mark, we don't hit it.

Then we are at least contributing to that push, to that expansion, to that change,

Karen & Will: No question. No question. And why do you think, or that's not the right way. How do you think the work that you are doing can help our current culture with all of the stuff that's going on? Oof.

Allyn: that, that's a tough question too. I think you should go experience it. I'm joking. I, you know, I think it goes back to if we're working on ourselves, This is a David Hawkins idea too. And he said, you've interviewed someone that, that gave a lot of information about that. If we work on ourselves and we work on how we're changing, our perspective and we also experience life differently through that different lens, because we have worked on ourselves and gotten to that place of acceptance.

Maybe we're [00:35:00] close or we're even living in unconditional love. That's a tough one to do, but you know, maybe that's where we are. So it, yeah. The more of us that are doing that and this work helps people get there. That's what is the changer.

Yeah. That's in my opinion. This is my opinion. It's the change agent.

Will: Okay. Well, let's go back to your expand app because I just found out about it. I haven't downloaded it yet, but I plan to. What is that exactly? Is it just binaural beats? Is it meditation?

What exactly is it?

Allyn: Now. So, we have what we call now Monroe sound science as well. So Hemi sync technology. And that was um, that's in several of our programs like gateway. But of course, you know, with technology shifting the more we, we know more about how the brain works, we have better ways of looking at what's going on in the brain when we are listening and experiencing these things we've added a little bit.

So about our binaural beats is one module or one modulation. So we've [00:36:00] added up to four, four modulations in some of the work we're doing. We're looking into 3D as well, and we've already started using that, actually, when we, in some of the presentations I've given so anyway, all of that, which would be binaural beats and Monroe sound science or these other modulations combined, not combined.

Or on the app,

Karen & Will: so, yeah, I know when I'm sometimes I'm meditating, I'll put the music on and you'll get the, the binaural beats or the different, you know, music or whatever. It's very intense. Why is sound such a, like a mechanism to help get us into that zone? Like, what does it do with our brains?

Allyn: right? So that we would have to go back to what we know about the binaural beat effect. And then also you know, once we get into Monroe sound science it's an entrainment that can happen with the binaural beats. And so you've got one frequency going in one ear, it's inaudible. If it's played by itself, another frequency going in the other year.

And then for simplistic purposes, let's say you've got a third [00:37:00] ear in the brain. The third ear is trying to unscramble what's going on, and that's when it will go to a different hertz or cycles per second. So the brain is led to a different cycle per second, like a theta state, an alpha state, a beta state.

Of course, we have come, we have a very complex formula, so our meditations aren't just, They aren't just alpha. They're, they're very complex. that is what's helping you go to these deeper states of awareness, experience in them. That takes meditators years of sitting to be able to hold and reach those states.

Yeah. That, that's the, that's good.

Will: that's the exciting part, right? You don't have to meditate for years and years and years in a key, in a dark key by yourself without any food and water.

Allyn: Yeah, and that's just it, you know, like, if I say this out loud, I'll probably get some feedback. That's negative feedback. But If you're coming here or you're experiencing our meditations, it's not about mindfulness meditation. It's not about TM. It's [00:38:00] about the experience, you know, going along with the experience.

So for me, meditation is, is joyful. Sometimes it's entertaining. Sometimes it's, you know, there's healing. Sometimes it's, it's, it's very quiet, but it's not, it's not a discipline. Like you never feel like, except for, you know, Getting relaxed and hit and play. It's not a big discipline, you know, you're not having to, like you said, sit in a cave and not drink water for five hours and, you know, sit or stand or have your hands over your head or

it's relaxing and it's enjoyable and you're changing your brain and you're, you know, self, you're going through self evolution.

Will: So it's an active thing. not a

uh, Imagination, right? Imagination is a key thing. And a lot of people that have been long time meditators who quiet the mind completely, huge, you know, send away any thoughts. They have trouble with the imagination aspect of it and imagination is key. That's what [00:39:00] can start initiating and triggering those other experiences to unfold.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is it's not about clearing the mind, but rather activating the mind. Yeah.

Allyn: Well, think about this. If you're, if you're clearing the mind, you see a little red wagon in your head. You tell the red wagon to go away because you're, you're doing this. You're not, you're supposed to, and you start oaming or you start, you know, saying an affirmation to clear your head. Well, if you were in a program with us or just listening to the app, we would say, Oh, there's a little red wagon.

You should check that out. Why is that little red wagon there? You know? And so in those deep meditative states, you're going along with the experience. You're not shooing it away. You're not telling it to go away.

Will: Yep. Got it. Got it. Yep. That sounds exactly right up my alley. Does that make sense?

Karen & Will: It does.

Will: the expand app back to that, is that, is it just a listening app? And I do want to dive into a little bit into the Monroe technology of sound. I think on your site, I found the [00:40:00] HemiSync technology, that kind of thing.

So you share with us a little bit of how that HemiSync works and then bring the, the Monroe technology into it.

Allyn: Okay, well, so I already talked about the, you know, the frequencies going in one ear and the other ear. And then we had, Bob Monroe came up with what he called maps of consciousness and he called them focus levels. And so it gave us a way to map out the territories using these combinations of frequencies.

And again, like I was saying, it's not just a theta, it's not just an alpha, instead it's a state. The first one that we teach on campus is mind awake, body asleep. That's called focus 10. That is a state where, what do you think you do? If it's mind awake, body asleep.

Karen & Will: Dream?

Will: Astro project,

Allyn: that's one of the foundational pieces. That's one of those foundational pieces for you to remain alert when you are in those deep meditative states. So that's really what that's [00:41:00] about. And, and you can actually, and sorry this is a spoiler alert, but you can actually hear someone snoring, or heavy breathing, and you're like, okay, I'm in here by myself, who is that?

And you're, you know, you're thinking, and it's you,

Will: Oh, no.

Allyn: your body,

is that asleep, it is snoring and you are still alert.

Will: I told you it wasn't me snoring.

Karen & Will: No, I'm awake. Looking for the earplugs. Mindfully awake, however,

Allyn: And so then there's another, you know, the next one we would teach you is called focus 12. Now the numbers aren't magical. One's not higher than the other. You get the idea, you sometimes get the idea that it is because it's a higher number, but it's more about the purpose. So what am I trying to accomplish in this meditation today?

Focus 12 is more about the total self. So you're dialing down the body and you're getting more into a higher self communication. Like that's where I would be maybe having a [00:42:00] conversation with my body. Which is interesting. Have y'all ever done that?

Will: my body is deaf and dumb, so no. I've yelled

Karen & Will: at my body. Yes.

Allyn: done that too. And, and unfortunately you know, that's, that's, we've got to stop that.

Will: Yeah, I know.

Allyn: and I still find myself being mean to her, one of the things I was doing early on, I was listening, I used to listen to Hay House radio when it was summer, just had started.

It was really radio when it was for podcasts. And I was watching or listening to a show and it was her mother Venus Andrek. And so the, her mother goes, Hey, you guys, you can talk to your body and it'll talk back. And I'm like, what? This was probably 10 years ago. No, but I thought, well, okay, I'll, when I meditate next time, I'll try it.

So I got all into my meditative state. And so then I said, okay, body, body. What would you like for me today? And I [00:43:00] hear Butterfinger

Will: I was just going to say Hershey bar.

Allyn: and and I was like, I mean it got it totally popped me out of the meditation. I'm like, no I want a diet and if I get a Butterfinger, I'm gonna, you know, so I'm thinking it's gonna tell me lettuce spinach salad

Will: Your body's addicted to sugar. Yeah,

Allyn: anyway, so that led me to start thinking about this. I can talk to my body and I, and I, I mean, I've gotten like vitamins that I need to take you know, I can get information and it's interesting because sometimes I'll have to sound it out. Like I've never heard of that before. And spell it.

And one was, this was before turmeric became a big deal. And I was like, what is turmeric? You know, and I look it up and it was for inflammation, which I was having some inflammation, you know, so you can have these two way conversations with not just higher self but with the [00:44:00] body with guides, you know, there's a whole new world out there.

Will: something comes to mind. You were, you've already talked about the importance of imagination. And you're sitting here saying you're, meditating, you're talking to your body and it says you it wants a butterfinger, you've heard it because you say you're a clear your audience.

So, how can you differentiate that kind of thing from your imagination? Like if I'm sitting there and I'm hearing things, I'm making it up, I'm making it up myself. How can you tell the difference between the two?

Allyn: so that's a muscle you have to develop and that's with practice. So, you know, when we were at the very beginning, when you were saying, okay, that there's some foundational work I need to do. Those are the kind of things that that's a piece of it that you have to start trusting. For example, when I was practicing Reiki about four years ago, I started hearing information about my the person I was working on.

And I would like a lot of times I would [00:45:00] say to in my, in my head, I would hear it and I would go uh, uh, I'm not telling her that they'll think I'm crazy. But it, it makes it, as I said, it, I would make myself say it, even if I thought this is the craziest thing I'm going to say, and what will it mean to this person?

I wasn't interpreting. I was just. They want to heard and they would validate it every time. And so, but you don't have to start with that type of validation because you're not there yet. So how do you validate? when you're just starting? Well, that's where I would start with the dream analysis and then meditating and asking.

We do something here called five questions or, and we have a problem solving exercise. So doing some little things like that. While you're meditating and then journal it, you know, so that you can start verifying and ask for something to help you verify when you're in those deep meditative states.

Karen & Will: interesting that [00:46:00] so many people. Come back and tell you to journal and journal. And I'm not, I'm not, I like to write, but for some reason I'm not a journaler. Does that help so much?

Allyn: Well, it helps because you can go back and see the breadcrumbs. why, I mean, I, I am a journalist. I'm a writer and a journalist. So I have right now I'm writing a book. And I'm going back to 2008, 2009. I even went back to 1994 and I'm reading about my thoughts about all this stuff and where I was in the process.

And also I, I started having out of bodies in 2009, so I was able to, you know, look at those and look at some of the I would have that were about the future. And yeah, so I, I mean, that's why, because you forget when you have these Meditations, it's like a dream, you know, you say, okay, I'm going to remember that don't have time to record it this morning I'll do it when I get home from work and it's gone and that's the way these [00:47:00] meditations are They're very fleeting and I have read things in the past Like when I do pick it up and look at it, it's like oh, wow I don't remember that at all.

But again, it was telling me it was pointing in a direction that I was going

Karen & Will: So I guess it could do bullet points. Well,

Will: it's interesting because that's the way this, the show started is I would meditate. And as I would get messages, I would, come out of it and record my thoughts, what I just saw into my phone. And I would release those and they'll read up passage in a conversation with God or something like that and tie the two things together.

And that would be the first episode.

Allyn: Right. Right. And maybe, maybe that's it. Use a microphone instead of writing and then have AI transcribe it.

Karen & Will: That's a good idea. I just have horrible handwriting and it's

Allyn: Well, I I'm a type or I'm actually typing mine all the time because that way I can search it and find things

Will: That's smart. That is

Karen & Will: smart.

Allyn: in it fast. Cause my brain is going really fast and my fingers can get really fast.

Karen & Will: I [00:48:00] am so interested in these programs that you have, whether it's a week long or a weekend.

What, what can someone expect if they signed up for a week? What, what does that look like?

Allyn: You know, we always say that in each individual has a personal agenda.

We have a program agenda. We have things we're going to do, but each person comes in different for different reasons. So a lot of times we find that that personal agenda will take over. So for me to tell you, this is what happens, blah, blah, blah, blah it's not necessarily the same for each participant, even though you're all here together. But as far as the general overview, like, let's just say gateway, and we have other graduate programs that are similar to that format, you do a 5 a day in the, in your check unit. And so it's basically a setting it up that your trainers who are very skilled set this up. You have the experience and then as a group you discuss it, then you go again and that, and then you get three square meals, you get [00:49:00] snacks.

Will: we've talked about a lot of the programs in Monroe about consciousness, about astral projection, all that kind of stuff, there is so much more. about the Monroe Institute that is yet to be discovered. I would invite anyone who is interested in learning about the Monroe Institute to reach out to you.

So what is the best way for someone to do that?

Allyn: So, info at monroeinstitute. org is, is the easiest and the best way. And of course you can find our staff or send to our different staff members.

Will: And you have the website that we're going to put in our show notes. you have an Instagram account, you have a Twitter account, you have a Facebook account, you have a YouTube, which is really cool.

You are nothing if not discoverable. So if you don't know enough about Monroe Institute by now, there is a plethora of resources out there for you to educate yourself. My gosh, I can't even tell you. I can't express how much gratitude I have for coming on the show, talking to us for this hour that we've had the conversation for for all the great things that you're gonna do for us now moving forward.

'cause we [00:50:00] know each other, right? The whole friends thing.

Allyn: There we go, keep working it.

Will: oh my God. I mean, write affirmations, affirmations, manifestation.

Allyn: Right, there you go. Hey, you can manifest this. Come on.

Will: Oh yeah, believe you me, I just got to get over my fear of manifesting, that's what it is.

Allyn: Oh, there we go.

Will: But actually the very first step in doing anything is actually putting it into action because we talk a lot about this stuff and yet very few times do we actually take the step to put it into action and you're not going to get this information, you're not going to get these experiences by osmosis, by listening.

You've got to take the step. I invite people to go get your expand app. I'm going to do it right now as soon as we finish this conversation. And I know, I hope that this is not the last conversation we have because my God, do I absolutely love you and the Monroe Institute.

Allyn: Thank you.

Will: And a huge thank you to you. We know that there are tons of options out there and having you decide to come along [00:51:00] on our journey of discovery with us is an absolute honor for us. We'd love for you to contribute by sending us a voicemail or an email from our website, or leave us a review on Apple podcasts or any other podcasting platform that supports them.

Karen and I love hearing from those that are moved to message us. It truly does fuel our passion. You are the reason we do this show and knowing what you like and don't like, help us craft the very best show we can so that we can help raise the vibration of the planet together. Well, that's all for now, but we'll see you on the next episode of The Skeptic Metaphysicians. Until then, take care.