Consciousness Expansion and Heart Opening with Cacao Plant Medicine

Karen & Will: [00:00:00] Karen.

Will: Yes. You and I have talked about plant medicine a lot. We have, right? The, there's a movement that's sweeping the world right now. Things like ayahuasca and mushrooms are everywhere, everywhere.

And a lot of people are finding that, uh, using them helps 'em expand their consciousness and take them further down their path of enlightenment. Mm-hmm. Now, what if I told you, There is a new type of plant medicine that's not new at all, that it's been experienced ceremonially through indigenous ceremonies for thousands of years, but it's only just now getting to the western world.

So it's like a reemergence sort? Mm, kinda. And what if I told you that you are already consuming it in your everyday life? Then I'd be saying, what the

Karen: heck? I should be happier.

Will: I mean, pretty much everyone has, has eaten this or has eaten this on a regular basis. Well, today we visit with a heart opening consciousness, raising infinite intelligence that is beginning to take the spiritual world by craze.

Ooh, welcome to the Skeptic Meta Physicians.

[00:01:00] My name is Will and I'm Karen. And unlike Molder and Scully, we both wanna believe so we've embarked on a journey of discovery. We've talked to people deeply entrenched in the spiritual and metaphysical world. We've thrown ourselves into weird and wonderful experiences. I. Even joined a coven of witches and wait, you joined a coven?

Yep. All in the interest of finding something, anything that will prove that there's something beyond this physical three-dimensional world we all live in. This is the.

Will: This review corner review comes from Lizzie at Apple. She gave us a five star review and named it fascinating. It goes on to say, this is such a fascinating podcast. The guests they have on all explore different spiritual topics that one could initially dismiss until you hear them speak, they're intelligent and logical in how they share their knowledge.[00:02:00]

The hosts ask intelligent questions that dig deeper. It's been an eye-opening podcast that I've been binging, Liz. Well, Liz, thank you so much for sending us this wonderful, wonderful review. Can't express enough how much we appreciate you taking the time to leave us this review. And if you'd like to hear your review read on the air, please feel free to go to skeptic manipulation.com and leave us review on the website. Or you can go to Apple Podcasts or Pod Chaser.

Both platforms allow you to leave reviews directly on their platforms.

Hi, I'm Will. And I'm Karen. And today's main topic revolves around a heart-opening consciousness, raising infinite intelligence that we're already all partaking in without even knowing it. I like it. Yeah. Now, that's a simplistic way to introduce, uh, the topic. Obviously, though we're all partaking of the medicine, we're missing a very critical element that actually activates this powerful intelligence.

We're talking about the power of [00:03:00] Cacao and with us today to help us sort out all the facts from the f from the myths. We have author and Cacao spirit Medicine, ceremonialist, Judy Machado Judy, welcome to the show.

Judy: Thank you so much. Oh my goodness. Will, and Carol, uh, Karen, I just love the way that you, uh, introduced cacao like that. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here with

you

both.

Will: Karen, you know what that tells me? It tells me you got it right finally. I know, right? Woo.

Judy: Oh.

Will: All right. So, uh, Judy, we have a lot to talk about. Mm-hmm. First and foremost, right? Let's set the table. You say the cacao has exponentially accelerated your spiritual journey. Now I eat chocolate on a daily basis.

Karen: I don't think

Will: Hershey's count. Well, I say I find myself still stuck in the same spiritual place I was in yesterday.

So,

Karen & Will: so how exactly

Will: can cacao be considered a sacred drink, and how can it expand our consciousness?

Judy: Wow. Well thank you for bringing up [00:04:00] Chocolate, chocolate first, cuz that is such a beautiful place to start. Um, so chocolate is the number one, the world's number one favorite food, isn't it? Chocolate is the world's number one favorite food. Everyone loves chocolate. And yet what? Notice that it's also the number one gift for romance or for Mother's Day or when we want, when we love someone.

And so the energy of the chocolate. Even though it's been processed over and over and over again before it, you know, other ingredients and sugars and all this other stuff's been added to it, yet it is the number one, the world's number one favorite food has such a beautiful energy of love. Can you imagine in its raw form, And this is what is so beautiful and so magical about, uh, cacao, this beautiful master plant medicine.

And if I can start actually with what is a plant medicine? Why is this called a master plant medicine? Um, and so there are beautiful cosmic [00:05:00] spirits that have manifested themselves on some of our plants here on Earth School or on earth, whatever you wish to call it. And. You might ask. Okay, that's interesting.

Why would plant these cosmic spirits manifest themselves on, on some of our plants, including cacao,

Karen & Will: Well, they like chocolate too.

Judy: Right. Right, exactly. Why couldn't we just talk to this beautiful cosmic spirit, which of course we can. But in our limited form here on Earth School, we have a body suit. And so in our limited form, we eat and drink to stay alive.

Um, and so when we consume these plant medicines, which started these cosmic. Spirits that are, are supporting us by their certain cosmic spirits supporting us, by manifesting themselves on certain plants here on our earth when we drink or eat or drink these plant medicines with honor and reverence and sacredness.

That's the key, and we'll talk a little bit more about that [00:06:00] with the real understanding that this is a cosmic beautiful hole. Spirit and being in consciousness. When we consume them in this way, they go right into our blood system, right when we drink something, when we, when we eat right into our blood system within just minutes.

And so this is one way that these medicines help us to support us in our expansion and taking us on these journeys, these, these con very, uh, open-hearted, uh, expanding beyond our current state of awareness journeys and each plant medicine. Is very different, has a different purpose, and takes us on different journeys.

And so, believe it or not, cacao with a main ingredient to make chocolate. I also just five years ago heard this and there was something deep in my bones that I needed to experience this. I needed to go to a cacao ceremony. I needed to remember. What this is and reconnect with that beautiful cosmic spirit.

[00:07:00] And, um, and so there's, there's so much we're gonna share about how, in terms of the mind, the body, and the spirit. Uh, but first to share, Kakao is not a psychedelic. So like many of the plant medicines, right? We know some of Ayahuasca or some of the mushrooms are psychedelic, and you typically have a journey where typically you're sort of s you're, you're standing still or you're, you're, you're sitting, maybe it's an overnight journey, such as with, with, uh, grandma, ayahuasca.

Um, but with cacao it's a very, very gentle, very gentle journey. She is here to open up our heart. She's here to literally head into our, our heart chakra and. Open it up like a blossoming flower cuz what's happened is, If you can imagine your heart's like this really beautiful, tight bud, you know, this flower, like a PE if you can imagine, they're so beautiful when they're tight buds as well as when they're open, but the tight buds and it just wants to open.

And what's happened is over the years we've been, you know, we've had things happen to us and [00:08:00] we've, we've created. Perhaps stories or meaning around all the things that have happened to us. And so we keep putting like a band-aid, oh, this happened to me, so therefore here's my story. And a Band-Aid keeps our heart shut.

So tight. So tight. And these medicines are here to help us to just one by one, especially Kakao, cuz she's very gentle. Open up one of those band-aids. And she literally, as she opens up your heart, your heart shock was activated. You feel love, you feel euphoria sometimes. And as you feel this, she starts to sprinkle into your awareness, other perspectives around.

Some of those stories or limiting beliefs or triggers or, you know, last week's text message that really upset you because how dare your cousin say that to you or whatever it was. We're holding onto these, these, these perceptions and it comes into your awareness. She brings us into your awareness again.

And because your heart is in this space of being so open and, and, and so, um, soft [00:09:00] softened right? That that tight butt is really softer. Now we are more open. To look at these other perspectives. She's taking us into a higher place of, is it possible that we have one perspective of many other perspectives and taking us into these, these planet medicines take us into a place bigger than our, than, than than our box.

Than than what we truly believe we are. Um, and there's a beautiful, if I can share, there's a beautiful analogy. About consciousness, and I'm gonna show, um, I'm gonna show it to you right now. I love, love, love to share this analogy. It's, it's so, so beautiful. Or this, this little demonstration, if I can call it, is taking a piece of paper and I'm rolling this piece of paper.

So I've taken a piece of paper and I've rolled it, and now I'm gonna look through this piece of paper, but I'm gonna make it really, really tight. So that looks still too big. I'm gonna make it super tight. I'm gonna look through this piece of paper. And now I see myself, [00:10:00] that is all I see. So all I see myself, so all I'm really concerned about is myself, and that's all I really care about is okay, I see myself, how can I take care of myself?

And then as I start to expand this piece of paper, I can see, so for example, if we were on Zoom, which we're not, but let's pretend that you know we were, I would see you next to me. And then I would say, oh, look at this. There's, there's, you know, will and Karen next to me. This is so beautiful. We're having a conversation and we're actually there.

You're beautiful timing. I've. But isn't it interesting how I didn't notice you were always there and I'm opening up even more and now I'm noticing as we open this up even more where I am, I'm in my room. What's the weather like? Who's over there and who's over there? And it's just like consciousness. We go through this beautiful journey of going through the narrow version, the the limited consciousness, and then we start to expand, expand, expand, [00:11:00] expand, and we start to see what's always been there.

Around us. Whether it's, um, unity, peace, maybe we don't see peace initially because we're like, again, when you only see you and you're only concerned about you, you're in a different state of consciousness. When we start to see more people, we start to see more love. We start to actually experience the higher.

Perceptions, the higher, um, awareness, higher levels of consciousness, and this is what these plant medicines are doing. They're kind of like stretching the paper for us a little bit. If you can imagine sometimes really far out and you're like, and then you come back to your life.

Karen & Will: Make it stop. Make it stop. Judy, you. Ok. So

Will: you, you have now answered at least six of the questions I had for you, so thank you. That was fantastic. But you make it sound so appealing and so amazing. Well, she has this

Karen: energy, she's just like, full of love and excitement and joy and it just, I just radiates. I know.

And it's almost like I, I

Will: just wanna listen to you. I [00:12:00] was just gonna say, what else you got? Gonna take a seat and just let you talk. So, I mean it all, this sounds amazing mm-hmm. And wonderful and, and, and exciting and all that kinda stuff, but how is it, is it just the ceremonial aspect of it? The, the actual ceremony that, separates Because, you know, Hershey's is my best friend, so could it do this with just a Hershey's bar and just Ceremonially eat like that and it opens up my heart.

Karen: I just had this image of you in the corner, chocolate all over your face. I'm like,

Karen & Will: woo. That's not a bad image actually. You'd be in your happy

Karen: place. Yeah, actually it's not, not a great image.

Karen & Will: Well,

Will: I mean, it does make me happy when I eat Hershey's. Maybe that's what it's, oh, by the way, this episode is not brought to you by Hershey's.

Right.

Judy: No, no, no.

Oh my

Karen: I remember

studying have a degree in anthropology, and I remember studying about the Maya using chocolate, and when the Spaniards came and they said it was a very bitter drink. So, and Will and I actually went to, um, Ecuador and we visited a, [00:13:00] a cacao farm. And so we got to eat some of the fresh fruit and watch the whole process of how they make it into chocolate.

what kind, like, how, what type of cacao do you use for this type of ceremony?

Judy: Yeah, so it is important that you, um, you find and you, you buy ceremonial cacao, and what that means is that the farmers, um, those who are fermenting the cacao, those who are packaging the cacao, transporting. Selling the cacao all along the stages. Everyone is aware that the cacao is a master plant medicine.

It is a cosmic spirit. Is it? It is honored and respected with devotion all along that process. So that's called ceremonial cacao.

Um, and So if you, you go to,

Will: definitely not, Hershey's,

then

Judy: no,

Karen: not gonna the grocery store at the 7-Eleven.

Judy: no,

Karen & Will: But then what,

Will: what is that? Is it, is it, if you don't get this type ceremonial, okay. If it's not treated in a certain way, does it kill the, the medicine within it? Or why? Why is that?[00:14:00]

Judy: Yeah, well, everything's intention and energy now. Now, first of all, I do believe that when we are in, uh, an estate, Of awareness that we can, you know, we know with plant medicines we can drink and connect with the medicine, but also we can speak to her at any time as well. Especially once you've had her once and you've connected, you can go days and days and days and still continue to speak with the medicine.

That, that's for a whole other episode, uh, episode or or podcast episode around. That, that these cosmic spirits, we can speak to them also without consuming them. However, everything is in this level of definitely we are, we are expanding into that understanding that we are whole. First of all, we are the medicines and that's what they want to share with us.

They want to show us that we are the medicines, but everything's in stages, right? So right now we're in a stage of really connecting with them, drinking with them, speaking to them, and as we start to evolve and build this devotional sacred, Beautiful [00:15:00] relationship with them. We can speak to them at any time, and they're always with us and they start to send us messages, clarity.

We ask for clarity or for, um, consistency or for certain things in our life, or to just be this open vessel and have their beautiful frequency and consciousness come through us to share for others.

And so, It is, it is beautiful and very important at first for sure to have ceremonial cacao to, to go through that honoring process.

And you went to see a beautiful farm too. Uh, I don't know if they had, you know, if they were aware or, or you know, even some farms are not

even

aware

Will: I mean, if, if they were, if they were aware, I don't think they, they made it known to me anyway. I didn't see, at the same time I wasn't, I didn't know what to look for. I didn't know that there was such a thing as ceremonial

Judy: Yes. Yes, it's very interesting. I, I was helping my brother-in-law start his chocolate business a few years ago. Um, and that's when this whole thing came to me. Uh, he started sharing, he was at an ayahuasca journey in ship in [00:16:00] Peru, 14 days with the beautiful Shipibo Kbo tribe. And he came back and shared that.

And, um, they very much. Um, this, this understanding, he was saying that all over, even though it was an ayahuasca journey all over there were caca trees everywhere. And he came back and said that the beautiful Shibun Kbo tribe were telling him that this was also a plant medicine. And when he came back and shared this, it was like something inside of me knew.

1. Wow. And this is happening with many of us, um, that it's, it's literally these medicines call on us. The medicine was calling on you that the spirit was calling on you to go to that farm, to first it's like the seeds, to start to seed the understanding of what is the medicine. Um, these are all seeds within us and the seeds when we, from.

They start to ferment or they start to grow when we start to water them. And so here we are now on this discussion, this beautiful conversation about cacao. And these spirits are calling on us because they call on us. When we are in a place of [00:17:00] readiness to change, to shift, to let go, we have to surrender old beliefs and paradigms and stories in order to expand.

Right, everything is a release and an expansion, a release and expansion. Um, so in order to step into a higher awareness, we have to have a new belief cuz our beliefs are keeping us in patterns, right? Everything we believe shows up for us. I believe it's hard to do this. Well, guess what? It's gonna show up that, that physical manifestation to support your belief.

And so these medicines help to open up the veil a little bit, right? So we can experience not only this gorgeous feeling of unconditional love for ourselves, for, for everyone, but also start to see. Other, other things beyond our current perspective, like the, the individuality of our, the, what we believe is the individuality of ourselves, which is, you know, one of the biggest lies ever told is, is that we are separate, but, but we look at each other.

We're like, of [00:18:00] course we're separate. But really we, they wanna show us that we are actually one, we are the medicine, we are each other simply being beautiful reflections for each other, and they wanna take us into that

journey.

Karen: Right. And I like how you use the term release, instead of surrender, because I think for a lot of people, surrender does have somewhat of a connotation with weakness or. Like a negative connotation, whereas release, you're just getting rid of it. Mm. Yeah. So if you can kind of turn your head around thinking of surrender as being a release, I think a lot more people would be on board.

Will: Yeah. Judy, I want to do a ceremony with you. I feel like you would bring such a great I mean, I hate to use a word trip, but in a way it would be a, you know, it just feels really

comfortable. Now I do have a question though that I'm sure a lot of people that are listening are probably gonna have.

When looking into different plant medicines you run across, inevitably the controversy with like peyote, for example, indigenous people being really concerned about other people appropriating it and because it may not be enough [00:19:00] and that kind of thing. So

would we be treading on indigenous peoples if we started doing ceremonial

cacao?

Judy: Beautiful question. Such an important question, and it's, it's very interesting, if I could share first, we're we're seeing this popularity in these ceremonies everywhere, right? Everyone seems to be, oh, I'm gonna, I just tried this and now I'm gonna host a ceremony. And it's very, very, very, very, very important that we understand that these cosmic spirits, when they call on us, they want to journey with us.

They, you know, if and when the time comes where you are to host a ceremony, they will tell you there is nobody that can tell you. What you are ready. These medicines are calling on us to expand to, to bring us into their awareness, to expand our awareness, to support us in this, in this release, and becoming something new so that we can be the embodiment of them and supporting and holding the space for others if and when they initiate [00:20:00] us, if and when that.

That medicine, that cosmic spirit initiates us. And so that's so important. And so, yes, in terms of our beautiful indigenous families, these medicines, these plant medicines, up until recently, uh, really just 10 years ago, were only only calling upon our beautiful indigenous shamans, families, conscious teachers and leaders because they were in a place of resonance.

They were ready to receive the wisdom and the teachings that the medicines wish to bring to us. And now as we're all expanding quickly, there is a misalignment and a misunderstanding of, oh, well this is wonderful. I just did ceremony. Now I can share this in ceremony, in charge for this, or whatever it is.

That's where we're all coming back things we, we get excited, right? And we wanna share this really fast and we want to, you know, support others. And, and it is a beautiful intention. We really want to support. But it's very important with master [00:21:00] plant medicines that they choose you, they wish to take you on an incredible journey.

Um, and then if. And, and part of that journey is speaking to them. That's the other thing is, is speaking directly to these medicines, is understanding that the relationship that, that they wish the relationship is gonna expand when you bring that kind of honor and devotion and speak directly to them and ask, ask and you shall receive.

Right? This is one of the, the most important things that we need to understand in life. That we are here and we have, um, free will and these beautiful. Medicines, these cosmic spirits from the other side that really we come from. Um, and we've just chosen to be here right now. There was an agreement, Hey, we're gonna forget temporarily, forget who we are, we're gonna be here and temporarily forget.

But when you ask is when we can intervene. When we can

help again,

Karen & Will: Mm.

Right.

Judy: we will. And so it's so beautiful [00:22:00] that question. So important.

Karen & Will: So

Karen: you say that the plant medicines have to choose you. How do you know? I mean, I know Will's gonna tell me chocolate chooses him every day.

Karen & Will: Every day, every

Karen: day. How do you know if the cacao has chosen you? What is it a feeling? Is it, are you. How does that work,

Will: Karen? That, that's a great question, but before you answer that, Judy, we need to take a quick break.

I think that's a way to usher us into the break. When we come back, we're gonna talk a lot more about that. We're gonna dive more into Kakao itself and we'll explore how we can all incorporate Kakao on a daily basis in our lives. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the Skeptic Meta Physicians. We are speaking with Judy Michalo, who is a cacao ceremonialist. We're talking about this beautiful. Plant medicine that has been used by indigenous peoples for thousands of years, but is just now [00:23:00] starting to make its way into the western civilization, western consciousness.

But the interesting thing about this plant medicine is it doesn't take you really on a trip. Right. And let me just clarify that, Judy, make sure I'm, correct. You are in control, right? With, with peyote, with ayahuasca, with mushrooms. you leave your mind with cow. That's not the case. Is that

right?

Judy: Yeah, with cacao, there are moments where you could possibly feel so euphoric that you're not even there

anymore.

Will: That's the term, right? it's euphoria.

It's

Judy: yes, exactly. It's not outside of your body. You're always present. You're always there. CAO's a very gentle medicine and plant. She wants to be with you in your day to day. She wants to support you in your day today, and that's why she's so beautiful and so perfect.

Also for creativity. She, there's so much in the cacao, it's such an incredible superfood to help us with our body as well. Not just our mind and our spirit, but our body. Um, copper, magnesium, iron, you know, all of the different, um, natural compounds to help us to [00:24:00] feel happy and good. Serotonin, dopamine. P um, anandamide.

These are, These are, these feel good chemicals. And yet we look around the world and so many people are on antidepressants, and what if we could all start every morning with a cup of raw cacao, raw, beautiful cacao, not only to help with those beautiful natural transmitters within us, but to connect with something bigger than us, to connect with something bigger than us.

That's reminding us. Through this beautiful journey that we are not victims, we are the creators of this life. We have just temporarily forgotten because that was the agreement coming here to Earth School was that we're gonna temporarily forget and go through this journey of evolution, which is E V O L love spelt backwards, which is sometimes it hurts, right?

We're like, we have to experience love backwards. The pain bef for us to, to, to experience the. The, the challenge, right? Right. So it's, it's this beautiful journey [00:25:00] of evolution and we go through this journey to remember more and more and more

Will: Yeah.

Judy: we

are.

Will: I love it. And right before the break, Karen, you asked a really fantastic question that, I didn't let Judy answer. So why don't you go ahead and

Karen & Will: restate the question.

Judy: I love

Karen: Well, I was asking, so you had mentioned that with plant medicines, they choose you. And my question is, how do you know if Kao has chosen you?

Are you getting visions? Is it a feeling? Is it cravings? How do you know? Great

Karen & Will: question.

Judy: Yes. Beautiful. How you're gonna know is you're going to hear, it's gonna be in your awareness, so you're gonna hear somewhere cacao versus maybe coco.

Karen & Will: Hmm.

Judy: or there's very big difference between cacao and cocoa, which we'll get to in a minute. Um, so you'll start hearing cacao. So it might be a cacao ceremony and you're like a cacao.

That sounds like a chocolate. What is that? So cacao ceremony might hear ceremonial cacao. You might hear somebody talking about, you know, on a podcast somewhere like this. You know, you're, where you're hearing [00:26:00] suddenly. Ceremonial cacao or the story of cacao, it starts to come to you more and more and more into your awareness, and you will just know at some point it will be flow that you will either be in a ceremony or you'll be on this podcast and you'll be saying, what is this?

I don't, I've never heard of this, but this sounds really interesting. Now I'm gonna go buy ceremonial cacao and drink this. And that's how she calls to you in these

beautiful ways.

Will: This sounds exactly like my relationship with Hershey's.

Judy: I love it. It's so funny. Oh my God. It's so true though. We love chocolate. Right? And and thank you for bringing it back to chocolate because we love cha. It makes us feel so good. And so it is such a powerful vibration of love. That is what Mama Kakao. In fact, we call her that mama Ka cow cuz she's like nurturing and loving.

And you feel that she is like a mama, like a, A mother. A mother energy.

Will: I, I think it sounds like Karen, now that it's, it's in our [00:27:00] orbit. I think we might need to start looking into this. I did have a question though, because I am a sucker for the sugar and I know the cow is not exactly the same taste as it. I know. It's definitely not at all.

Judy: yes.

Will: When you first take on that, is it gonna be a harsh awakening what does it taste like?

Judy: Mm. So it smells like chocolate. It looks like chocolate, but it is quite.

Will: like it.

Judy: Bitter. Um, and so there is no sugar. And so I say a few things with that. One is, um, just take a first sip. That we're gonna get to a little solution for you if you must have sugar, but get, take a first little sip and just see if you can just kind of feel this, okay.

It's like earthy, sort of earthy, mother earth, Pacha mama. This sort of connection, deeper connection. And yet I totally understand where you're coming from. You know, how can we sort of ween our way into putting some sugar and then removing, and you can do that with, um, [00:28:00] Natural organic sugars. So like cane sugar, natural organic cane sugar, coconut sugar.

If you're gonna use something, use these natural sugars. Um, something that's also natural and can be honored. Right? A natural honor, honorable sort of natural, organic ingredients

that

we

can add.

Will: And I guess I wouldn't take away from the power of the plant medicine.

Judy: Some, some may say that it does, but I find that, um, the alternative is you're not gonna drink it. And so I want you to, I want you to keep drinking it. And then, and then just for some people, they're like, whoa, this is, there's no way. And then they get rid of it and it's like, it's okay. She still wants to work with you in however we wish, however, we're showing up

however we want

Will: You're making this really easy on us. This is nice. This is great. We need to have a lot more people like you, right?

Judy: Well, it's true. It's, I I really do believe that perhaps there was a time where it was like an absolute no. [00:29:00] Um, and I feel like we are coming into a time where we're re what's resonates for me and I. You know, you know, there are collective sort of ways that we do things and then there's, we're all stepping into our indivi, our individuality, but also our unity.

And in doing that, it's like we're questioning everything. And sort of with, okay, if I really wanna keep drinking this, then, then maybe I will do some of this. And then maybe I'll just start weaning off of it and at some point not have any, versus there's no way I'm gonna drink this again because it's, it's too strong.

So I really believe that we have to honor ourselves too and and honor the baby steps sometimes that we, we need to take, um, on a journey.

Karen: Okay. I mean, you know, will you drink black coffee or espresso without sugar? Sometimes. Sometimes. So I would imagine it's kind of like that sort of a slightly different flavor, but that kind of strengthened bitterness.

Judy: Yes it is. And you know what, it's, I always find I, I, I like to add, um, either cinnamon. Cinnamon is also a plant medicine. It opens up our heart. It's a little [00:30:00] bit of cinnamon. So if you, you know, have it on its own with cinnamon or even an essential oil. So, um, if you, if you have any pure essential oils, a tiny little drop.

Cause those can be so strong depending on which one you use. But sometimes I'll use like a tangerine or an orange essential oil. That's pure medicine too, coming from these fruits. So you can just put a tiny little drop and now you have a little taste. It's not quite sugar, but it's, it's nice. And then some people will add, Um, like an almond milk, an organic almond milk too.

Ideally, we want to have just beautiful spring water with it. But again, enjoy it, experience it, drink her, talk to her. What's more important is that you, you have your cup and that you can sit with her because what's so beautiful I wanna share, um, will and Karen, this, this incredible thing that happens when you start to make the cacao at the stove.

Um, She appears in various layers for you. And what [00:31:00] I mean by that is imagine you have a little, you know, st a little pot and you've just put some, you know, cacao paste or powder, and you've added your water, and now it's, it's warm and you know, you're, you're stirring what starts to appear as you stir and then you stop stirring.

It's so hypnotic. The journey starts there. You stop stirring. And this design. Kind of slows down and then some design appears and then you start to see, I've counted five layers so you can see what looks like, you know, when oil and water

Karen & Will: Mm-hmm.

Judy: You know how you can see when oil and water, well, you could see what looks like water, and then you see below that what looks like soil.

So I always think of like the Earth, mother Earth, she wants to connect us to Mother Earth. There's like, like it looks like the soil, but then you see little bubbles and then in the bubbles are more water and then there's more like little, little soil within that. And then sometimes even see what looks like the moon within it.

So there's layers and she wants to just like at being at the stove and [00:32:00] just stirring and then stopping and just watching and watching the hearts, the, the, the FCI shows up for you. Like, it's just, it's amazing what happens at the stove before you even get to your cup. And then you can do the same thing when you have your cup with you, have a little moment and see what's going on, and

then drink.

Will: right, Judy, I wish you were a little bit more passionate about this stuff unless getting that from you.

Judy: Oh

Karen: So what takes in the ceremony?

Judy: That's so beautiful. So the ceremony itself, um, we all typically, again, everyone can do this differently, whatever, whatever resonates with them, with me, um, what always resonates with me is to share. A little bit of her story before we all drink together because sometimes we'll go to a plant medicine ceremony and it's kind of expected that we know and we just drink right away.

And I love that as well. It's beautiful. Um, and, and I love to just share a little bit of this, [00:33:00] you know, a little bit more of the story, the cosmic spirit, um, connecting with her then. Um, typically there's a pot usually in the center, and the facilitator, the shaman or the facilitator, will serve everyone. Um, and I personally love to serve to the left because the energy of Mama Kakao is very, it's very divine, feminine, energetic, um, not gender.

Uh, energy, but more of a, of a, of an energetic, again, we know that the feminine, the masculine, the feminine is very much receiving, loving, sharing energy, giving energy. The masculine is very much action, get things done, protection energy. And so she has this energy of just. Helping us. She actually has both because she helps us with creativity.

She helps us to relax but open up our box of awareness. And so because, because predominantly she's a very soft, feminine energy. I personally like to honor [00:34:00] that by serving to the left, cuz the left side of our body is the feminine. And the right side is the masculine. Um, and if you ever notice you have a problem on your, you know, on your left knee or your right knee, it's usually either male or female in your life.

That's how you can tell what's going on with me. Yeah. Yeah.

Which is a beautiful

Karen & Will: in the middle.

Judy: Yeah, right in the middle. Right. What's going on in the middle? I love that. I love that. And so there's a real honoring. I love to also, you know, everybody gets to hold the cup and we hold the cup together and we pass to the next person.

It's almost like, you know, you pass to the next person and you look in their eyes and you're with them. You're just, In silence for a couple of seconds holding the cup together as you serve the person, cuz there's nothing more beautiful than serving. Someone. Um, and so we get to experience that and we each get to, you know, move the cup onto the, into the circle to the next person.

And then when we drink, before we drink, I [00:35:00] personally love to guide people into speaking to her directly cuz most people don't know what that means. They don't know how to do that. Um, so before, when everyone has their cup, It's guiding everyone into, what would you like to ask her? What, is there something you would like to embody in your life right now to be, do, or have or, or would you like some clarity on something?

And I like to guide others to say, okay, can you address her before. You guide you, you ask her something, address her by name, ask you know, Kakao or Mama Kakao, however you feel comfortable, address her, and then say, I have a question. And so I guide them in silence. We're all in silence for about two minutes.

While everyone in their mind, in their, in their, in their head, in their thought is sending that beautiful, they're asking her something, they're, they're connecting with her. And then when that's done, I just like to acknowledge how. Simple that was, and how, how we can do that every morning, every night, every day.

Connect with something bigger than ourselves, whatever that is for you. [00:36:00] For some of us, it's God. For some of us it's a plant medicine. For some of us, it's an arc angel or an angel. Um, whatever it is, it's, it's this. These medicines, these beautiful, I call them medicines because we're in a journey of forgetting and, and the medicine helps us to remember and when we connect with something bigger than us, they start, it's part of our free will.

You know, they're waiting for us. I truly believe they're waiting for us to talk to them directly so that they can start showing the mirror to us. Reminding us that we are, we are that oneness consciousness. What does it even mean? Help you to understand that, embody that. See that, see that you can, you can think something and receive it.

That you can will something to happen that, that you can, that, that, that our words are spells and when we go say something terrible about somebody, we we're putting that out in the inner, in the universe for other, for other, for other people to go through that and to really get into this journey of truly embodying that we are.

Those [00:37:00] cosmic medicines, they want to show us the mirror, and that starts with acknowledging them, brings them to life and, and they need that because again, we have free will. They're waiting for us. They can't . Intervene until we speak

to

them.

Will: Yeah, I am. So in, that's it. I hear Mama Kakao calling out to me right now.

Judy: Beautiful.

Will: Now do you suggest people to start the journey, or the relationship with Kakao in a ceremony, or can someone just order something online and get it delivered to the house and go from

there

Judy: Absolutely having something in your house is a beautiful way to start. Um, in fact, uh, after, you know, after my beautiful journey a couple of years into my journey every day connecting with so much devotion, I just had this real beautiful. Remembering of her. I realized that most people, as much as I would sit in a ceremony and show people, most people would go home and they, and they didn't really know how to continue to connect.

So I created a beautiful, um, free five day video series. [00:38:00] So you drink with me on these videos. We talk a little bit about cacao, the story of cacao. We, we, we leave the, the bit of silence in there and I guide you into, okay, what are you gonna ask her today? Can you address her? You're in silence and we have a little bit of music we drink together in silence, and then we're done.

And you continue the journey after the, the video so that after five days, You now have this beautiful practice that you can sit with her. So that, cuz again, most people, and, and part of that is a little video of me at the stove. Cause most people, what do I do? How do I heat it? I don't wanna hurt it. What, what's the story?

How does this work? So it's just a really simple, here's what you can do and how to really be present with your cacao when you're, when you're cooking, cooking her and bringing that energy right there and being in that hypnotic, allowing and receiving that hypnotic journey, which is just so beautiful.

Before you even start to to drink

her?

Karen: That, uh, question just popped into my head that I, I have to know. So I cook a lot. so after you start doing these ceremonies or you're drinking every morning, can you also take that, [00:39:00] and, incorporate it into other foods just to

Judy: Hmm.

Karen: somehow.

Judy: Oh, I love that. some people would say no. Some people would say yes. Again, I feel like feel in your heart. Would you like this magnificent frequency to be added to your cake or to your protein shake or to whatever? Yes. So I actually do that as well right after the ceremony. We always have a little bit left over in the pot.

We typically do, and I always have a little beautiful, um, Little shake and lots of tangerines is a healthy snack for after. Um, and I love to put that into the shake, to mix the shake so that we can all see that there's, you can just keep using it. Keep, keep enjoying her. It's the intention. If you remember when you have that cake now, or the shaker, whatever it is, that this is ceremonial, this is a and, and take a moment to be grateful and to maybe again, talk to her and thank her and ask her for something for some other sort of clarity Then, It just [00:40:00] continues that beautiful journey.

Basically the number one thing these medicines want to show us is in this journey of remembering that wanna help us remember, is to bring this, make everything ceremonial. Make everything ceremonial in our life. So yes, if you're about to make a cake and you have leftover cacao from your morning, of course it would be ceremonial.

Cuz now you're gonna, you're gonna pour that into your cake, you know, batter a little bit differently. You're gonna be more with that. So everything in your life as a ceremony so that we can truly be present and in this frequency of pure gratitude for being here and for being the creator of every step of our life.

Will: Okay. But don't have that. Me too. But just I just want to clarify to make sure that we're not steering people in the wrong direction.

Do you recommend Everybody's, I mean, your, your five day video series, would that take the place of a ceremony? Would that be their first ceremony or do you feel like they should go to a ceremony first and then start experiencing that [00:41:00] with you at home on their own?

Judy: Yeah, so the five day challenge, the little video challenge, I actually call it a ritual. So, um, I, I don't like to call it a ceremony because you're right, there's, the ceremony is an understanding. Like you, you need to experience what a ceremony is. There's a very sacred understanding and experience that happens in ceremony of anything really.

When you look at a wedding ceremony, like there's, everything has, uh, an intention and sacredness. So the idea is, First, you can certainly for sure start drinking for sure. I, I don't really believe that you need to go to a ceremony first. Um, it is beautiful to go to a ceremony. First I did that. I was like, wow, what is this?

Went online, found a ceremony. However, at the same time, she's calling, she's calling to you and you want to drink her and begin this practice, this ritual, and then also absolutely. See where you can attend a ceremony, even if it's an online or in-person. Ideally, find somewhere in your [00:42:00] area where you can join a beautiful ceremony.

And, and then again, just going back to our, you know, how do we honor those who have been the caretakers of this beautiful medicine for thousands of years? It's very important that whoever's, um, hosting that beautiful ceremony that they. That there is a deep reverence and relationship with the plant medicine and that they have been initiated by the plant medicine to do this.

So there was a real Yes, the time is now. Because even when I first started drinking her, it took months. I kept asking her, I was already doing women's circles. Can I bring you into my circles? And sh I kept hearing from her. No, no. And, and I kept asking, and I knew, she kept saying, it's, I need to take you deeper.

I want you to experience me. I want you to experience what this really is. Be an embodiment. And sacredness and devotion of this medicine. And this is why just years ago, it would take sometimes certain, um, beautiful shamans years, 10 years, 12 years, [00:43:00] connecting deeply with these medicines before they would even share.

So it's very, very important that, that we connect, that it's beautiful, that people might wanna connect right away and they could buy the ceremonial cacao and drink right away at home in ritual or practice. And then attend these ceremonies to, to understand even more and then continue their practice at home.

Will: Okay. All right. That, answers my question. Because I'm looking up right now online

Judy: yes. I love it.

Will: cause I'm in, I'm a hundred percent in. This has been fascinating. I had no idea how much I didn't know about Kakao. This has been

incredible. Judy, is there anything else that you're called to share, with us today?

Judy: Yes. I would love, I just, as you were saying that, I went, oh, there's one more thing. Okay. I, I like to say this sometimes, and it's a little bit radical, this statement, but I truly believe in my bones that if it were not for our beautiful human family figuring out how to take these incredible, you know, this beautiful [00:44:00] cacao pod and the seeds that are in here and grind this and turn this into chocolate.

If it were not for them discovering chalk, turning this into chocolate, I believe in my heart, in my bones, that kakao would be illegal. Just like many other plant medicines are illegal. That is how. Profound of a

journey you can experience in terms of love and heart. And again, why are plant medicines illegal?

That's a whole other discussion. There's been a sort of dishonoring, disrespect, misunderstanding of what it's about, um, but because of the power of love. That this medicine brings us into. This is why I'm a huge fan of helping people to drink her. Every morning your own little practice, your own little ritual, she will guide you, talk to her, she will guide you.

She will open up new worlds for you. She will open up your heart. She will take you into places you, places and understandings [00:45:00] around release, like literally letting go of those judgments and, um, comparisons and put bringing you into a real place of. Everyone really is an expression of love and everyone is just here co-creating, and that's why we're seeing some madness and some goodness, and there's all this co-creation happening and how can we just set aside and know that, but also know that we're on this beautiful trajectory and shift into this beautiful golden age where we're remembering more and more of who we are.

Will: and this is why I reached out to you, Judy, cause I know that there is someone on this show right now. This episode that is, All about love, and I knew that if I brought it to her attention,

she would, she would,

have found her home. So thank you so much for coming and sharing your expertise with us.

I wanna go do a ceremony with you.

Judy: One day. One day. Yes. Thank you so much. [00:46:00] This has been such an honor and everyone on this beautiful, beautiful listening to this recording. It's just so much love to every single one of you. This is beautiful.

Thank you.

Will: and thank you right back at you. This has been wonderful. if you are curious about Kakao and want to reach out to Judy to get more information, we're gonna lay in all of her contact information in our show notes. So all you need to do is go to skeptic meta position.com, go to her episode page, and you'll see direct links.

Laid in there for you. So all you need to do is click and you'll be connected to Judy once again, thank you so much for coming on the show, and I hope that Sunday soon we'll be able to enjoy Kyle together.

Judy: Thank you. Namaste.

Karen & Will: Thank.

Will: Well, thanks for coming along on this journey of discovery with us. We'd love to continue our conversation with you on our website at SkepticMetaphysician.com or on Facebook and Instagram under Skeptic Metaphysician Podcast. If you know someone who would benefit from hearing the messages we're sharing on [00:47:00] the show, do them and us a favor and share the show with them.

It will help get the word out about us, and it may just change someone's life for the better. And if you're listening to this on the radio and you missed something, well, not to worry. All of our shows, including this one, can be found at SkepticMetaphysician.com where you can also watch the videos or you can send us an email or voicemail directly from the site.

We absolutely love feedback and would appreciate hearing from you. Well, I hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as we have. That's all for now. We'll see you on the next episode of the Skeptic Meta Physicians. Until then, take care.