How to meditate CORRECTLY and do it EVERY DAY!

Will & Karen: [00:00:00] Karen. Yes. You know how I'm always telling you that I really need to meditate more? Yes. And it's usually right after I've had my third cup of coffee in the day. Right. ? . It's right after, like you go to bed at night when it's too late to meditate for the day. You're saying it's, I tell you that right after I go to bed at night.

Yeah. I didn't say go to sleep. I said, go to bed. Make me awake in bed. Well, I think today's guest might actually be able to finally get me to stick to a meditation routine. Oh, then that means there's hope for me too. I'm not sure about that, but you see, our guest this week is a licensed clinical social worker with over 25 years of experience, but here's the kicker.

She's on a mission to get everyone in the world to meditate and actually enjoy it. Is that a mission impossible? You know what? In the edit, I'm going to have to put in the mission. Doom doom doom. [00:01:00] with so many meditation, teachers out there are so super chill and relaxed this week's guests may not be the person you would usually associate with meditation.

I like that. Yeah. See, she's got this super engaging, no nonsense, and often hilarious way of teaching people how to meditate. And she says there's nothing better for you except maybe water. Okay. And you know, I hate water. I know. You feel like you're drowning when you drink. That's the weirdest thing. Well, if you've been having a difficult time sticking to a meditation then this might just be the episode you've been waiting for.

Because once this episode is done, you're going to want to run to your couch, your mat, your chair, definitely though, not your bed. We'll explain that why, so that you can start your practice right away. This is a Skeptic Metaphysicians. [00:02:00] Hey there, I'm Will. And I'm Karen. And today we've got one of the most delightful personalities you'll ever get the chance to meet on our show. As a licensed clinical social worker, she's got over 25 years of experience and has provided counseling, coaching, workshops, hypnotherapy, and meditation classes and retreats As part of her own private psychotherapy practice for the past 17 years.

Wow. Now she believes that meditation is key to healthy living. So her mission is to teach as many people as possible, not only how to meditate, but how to make it a habit that [00:03:00] lasts a lifetime. That's the key. In a straightforward, no nonsense, highly engaging, and often humorous way, she's taught thousands of people how to meditate and keep meditating day in and day out.

There is hope for both of us. Karen, welcome to the show. The stress therapist herself, Cheri Flake. Cheri, how you doing?

Cheri: That was wild! I'm doing great! How y'all doing?

Will & Karen: Cheri, you are our, Obi Wan, you're our last, best hope. We are terrible at, we love meditating. Yeah, we do love meditating, but we can't keep it up. It's so hard, right?

Cheri: know.

Will & Karen: So help us Obi Wan, how can we maintain that meditation practice?

Cheri: Okay. I have about a thousand ideas.

Will & Karen: Okay, we've only got about we've only got about 45 minutes, so, Talk fast.

Cheri: Okay. I'll bring up the most important ones. Okay. So first off the, the, the thing that's, well, first of all, I mean, we all know nothing magical happens on January 1st. [00:04:00] I often get called on these TV shows to talk about healthy habits, you know, during the you know, new year and how to make habits stick and that kind of thing.

And I did do that for a good long time, you know, and until I realized that the only habit we really need is to meditate every day. If we can swing that, then, you know, Life just kind of falls into place. And so when I watched this with my clients, I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't just be teaching how to make running a habit.

I can't just be teaching how to eat carrots instead of birthday cake at the birthday party. Like I need to teach meditation all the time. And then those things kind of fall into place. And one of the coolest things about meditation is that, I mean, first of all, come on, like all the habits we're supposed to be doing, like.

I mean, I was listening to a comic the other day. I don't remember who it was, but he said something like, I feel like I babysit myself all day. Like, I'm supposed to drink this. I'm supposed to take that vitamin. And I'm supposed to, he's

Will & Karen: That must be where I'm going wrong. I don't babysit myself. At all. At all.

Cheri: like, we're not [00:05:00] very good at the regular habits. Right.

Will & Karen: I don't feel I'm very good at babysitting.

Cheri: Right. Right. Exactly. But like meditation

Will & Karen: show.

Cheri: It's extra hard because we're taking our ego out of it. Okay. And so if you want to like, say I have a, I mean, back in the day when it was popular to have like a popular YouTube video, it was a different definition, but my most popular one was how to make running a habit.

And I'm not a runner. My man's a runner. There's tons of runners out there and I just kept seeing people over and over, you know, talk about it. And if you want to make running a habit, I mean, you can use your ego to get your ass out there. You know what I mean? Like, you can be like, okay, I'm going to um, get new shoes.

I'm going to buy a new t shirt. I'm going to know my neighbors. I'm going to lose weight. I'm going to bring my dogs. It's going to be, I mean, this could be so, I mean, I'm going to be more with nature. I mean, there's a million ways. to bring your ego into it. Because remember, our ego identity is just who we think we are, right?

How we identify, how we would [00:06:00] explain who we are. When we go to meditate, we don't get to use that, you know? So we're, we're pushing that away. And so our egos get a little bit louder. At first now, I will say that a long time ago, I'm just like you, man. Like that, that's why I can teach people how to do this.

Because I was like, what have you seen me? I spin like a top, like, this is me, this is me on meditation. You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, I was like a total, complete mess. I was like an impulsive mess. And I did talk to a monk years ago who said, You know, Cheri, you are going to look to your cushion one day and with joy and anticipation.

I was like, yeah, yeah, right. I did not, did not believe that, but it's actually true. If you can trick your brain, into thinking that you're not meditating. Okay. And if you can understand what's going on with your ego and the coolest thing about meditation is the more you do it, the [00:07:00] more you're able to separate yourself.

Right. From the listener, right? The actual, cause there's not one of you. There are two of you, and if you don't believe me, have you ever been mad at yourself? Have you ever been in an argument with yourself? There has to be two of you.

Will & Karen: Full disclosure. I'm a Gemini. There's many of me. There'll be like four.

Cheri: uh huh, uh huh, huh. Okay, when you said you didn't like water, I was thinking, is he a Pisces? My mom doesn't like water and she's a Pisces. It's really weird. but yeah, if you learn a couple of tricks to get the upper hand on your ego, then it becomes like any other habit, where is, you're just trying to make it normal, right?

You're just trying to make it normal. Right now, the number one reason why meditation is not regular, something that you do every single day without stress, procrastination, or excuses, is because it's negotiable. Okay. If it's like, like, I don't know, I'm a parent. So, and you guys are parents. Remember when [00:08:00] your kid was like, I don't want to wear a seatbelt.

You were like, too bad. Like, this is what's happening, right? Like it's not negotiable. Right. But then when broccoli came around, you were like, well, it became negotiable. And then broccoli was out of the picture was over. You know what I mean? Because you're allowing it to be negotiable. It's something that you're kind of planning on doing.

Yeah. You know, and so there's a, there's a million points to it. So it's kind of like, let's say that you're going to come to my birthday party. Okay. And on the way there, you're thinking, maybe I'll have cake. Maybe I won't. You gonna have cake. Okay.

Will & Karen: Yes. No, no, no. There's no, no, I'm going to, I don't care what I, what I say to myself, I'm going to have cake.

Cheri: I get it. I used to have a birthday cake problem. Okay. That's why I'm using an example. I'm just like you, man. If you are sitting there going, there's no way I'm going to be able to meditate every single day for the rest of my life. Oh, I'm telling you that was me. Okay. I was in a change or die situation though, [00:09:00] man.

I was like the most unhealthy person in the whole world. I had to figure something out. Okay. And so I had to figure out how to do it. Okay. And so I'm with you. If you're like birthday cake, I get it. Okay. But if you say to yourself. I am not having birthday cake. And you tell Karen. I'm not having birthday cake.

Will & Karen: I'm having birthday cake here. I'll eat yours first. I'm here for you.

Cheri: Okay. You have to, you're not going to have birthday cake. You know what I mean? You're not going to have it. And plus when people talk about meditating, they're like, Oh, I mean, if I can make one billboard, it was really cool in Atlanta too, for a long time. I had a billboard. It was the coolest thing just said stressed.

And like, I mean, I was busy anyway, but if I could have one billboard out there in the beautiful, I live in Atlanta, it would just say, if you would like to change something about yourself, anything, it doesn't matter what it is, you have to feel good about it. Okay. We're [00:10:00] way too obsessed with feeling bad about what we're not working on about bad, about what we're not doing about bad, about what we should do shooting on ourselves all the time, rather than feeling good about what we're working on. That's where it is. That's it. There's no, there's everyone's trying to get to some magical finish line. That's not it. This is the journey. There's no way to happiness. You're on the journey to it. Happiness is the way like that sounds cheesy, but I'm just saying.

Will & Karen: so, so how do you get started? Because I, I love meditating. I wanna sit there and I, but I, I still just don't do it, you know? It's like, okay, I don't go to the gym and I understand why I don't go to the gym membership, but I don't go. Yeah. But I like meditating, but I still don't do it all the time. I don't know what my problem is.

Cheri: a couple points there The reason why I'm going to the gym is because my trainer Anthony is sitting there waiting for me every Monday and Thursday at 930 And

Will & Karen: Yeah. Shout out to Anthony. Hey Anthony.

Cheri: paid

Will & Karen: the kid

Cheri: He is a super badass. He's at workout anytime in Atlanta. But anyway That's why he's there.

So the accountability again is there, and [00:11:00] there's a mind body app for people who go to yoga or kickboxing or whatever, where you already pay, you took someone's spot. I mean, that app knows what time it is according to habits, right? But I'm going to tell you a little something that David G taught me, which is one of my teachers, and he nails it with this.

It's like, like all of us that work in this business, we're trying to articulate it and he just nails it. He says, rise. Pee, meditate. Okay. It's not rise, pee, look at your phone, let the dogs out, make a cup of coffee, read the paper, and maybe that meditation thing will happen later. It's rise, pee, meditate, rise, pee, meditate.

And everybody wants to tell me why they can't do that.

Will & Karen: well, it has to be in that order, right? Cause otherwise, you know, we don't want to pee, rise and meditate.

Cheri: Right. No, that's not good. That's not

Will & Karen: No, but that sounds great. However, here's the thing. And of course it's going to be a, here's the thing. Cause this

Cheri: There's so many things! I get it! [00:12:00] So many things!

Will & Karen: Lots

Cheri: are so many things! I can't do that!

Will & Karen: we are so sleep deprived, so we rise, pee, meditate, very succinctly fall right to flip to sleep.

Right? So I need to rise pee, take a shower, shave, get dressed, go down the stairs, make my coffee, check my email, eat my breakfast, sit down, take the kid to the school, come back, finish my email, finish my coffee, then meditate. And then, oh crap, I got a meeting in five

Cheri: I know you can't, that's not going to work. But imagine if you just woke up five minutes earlier and you didn't look at your phone or do any of those things. See, one of the things is, is that when we meditate, we are trying to move our brainwaves into a different state without falling asleep. So, meditation, I'm a 0 percent fan.

You have to be in like Cheri Flake graduate school to meditate. Okay. That's like advanced type of shit. Okay. If you're going to be, if you're new to meditation, you have to rise. Okay. Get out of [00:13:00] bed. Okay. And then pee and not do any thing else. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Even if you're sleepy, here's the thing with meditation.

If you don't do it in your bed, where you associate your bed with sleep and hopefully sex, you, you don't want to fall sleep there. Okay. Your brain will move into these other alpha waves and then be like, Oh, this, I know this. I'm just going to go right back to sleep.

Will & Karen: Mmm. Got it. But I gotta clarify something. Are you suggesting you meditate on the toilet?

Cheri: No.

Will & Karen: Okay, because you know, I didn't

Cheri: Karen. Thank you, Karen.

Will & Karen: here's why I need to defend myself. our bedroom when you get up and you go pee, you're, it's the bathroom is right in the bedroom.

There is no chairs. There's no other place to meditate than the bed or the john. So it's one or the other, unless you go downstairs. And at that point, then I may as well mix that coffee.

Cheri: Yeah. Okay. So here's the thing. You're going to need to have a designated spot. So like, remember I told you that monk told me that I would [00:14:00] love, and I would look to the cushion with joy and anticipation and all that. Oh, she said, I would look to the cushion. Like I was greeting an old friend. I was like, I'm not going to be doing that, but I definitely do that now.

I can't, I really have to hand it to her. Really? What I do is I rise P. I'm advanced Cheri flake school, so I do brush my chomps then meditate because otherwise I think about my teeth all day But you start with rise P meditate.

That's you. That's where you that's where you live your rise P meditate So what you want to do is you have to have a designated spot. So your brain associates that spot with sitting quietly

Will & Karen: but that spot is downstairs right next to the coffee pot.

Cheri: have

to resist the temptation to make coffee, rise, pee, and go right to that room. Do you have a pet? Okay, what's really nice is your pet is gonna pick up on meditation habit way faster than you. So what I noticed was my dogs would lead me into the meditation [00:15:00] space because I could go straight for the coffee.

Okay, and I don't know if you guys want me on coffee. Okay. The whole other experience, okay, I can go straight to the coffee or I can go right and they always go right and they sit on the cushions and they wait for me to sit down and then I each give them something to chew and I'm already sitting in the space and then my brain's like I get to sit here because it's a big present for yourself.

The reason why it's tough is because a, it's negotiable. You know, you're like, well, I can meditate today. I can meditate tomorrow. I can meditate, whatever. But once you start to really like, look at, like, do yourself this beautiful favor, I used to give this talk before COVID to the national association of social workers every year about meditation and its benefits.

And it took me like an hour and 20 minute talk to talk about the clinical benefits that had been proven a hundred years ago now, right. That meditation was helpful for physical symptoms, you know, physiological symptoms, psychiatric symptoms, all these things. [00:16:00] And once you kind of pick one, like, let's see, yours is going to be, I want to lower my blood pressure, right?

Or I want to eat more mindfully, or I want to be calmer or whatever it is, okay, whatever it is. I get this, I get this gig to go to the middle school and talk about meditation and I'm like, There's one thing you can do. And people who do this thing, after three weeks, only three weeks, of doing it every single day, they're better at sports. They learn faster and quicker. They're more sociable.

They're happier. They're calmer. They have better attention skills. They're more focused. So I start naming all these things, right? And everybody likes the better at sports one because they're in middle school. Right. And I'm going on and on and on. And then I said, it begins with M I was at a middle school.

I mean, they all came in. I know Karen's with me.

Maybe you don't want that story in there. I'm just saying.

Will & Karen: [00:17:00] Oh, good God. I did not go there at all. Nah, I don't even know you. You should have been the

Cheri: boys

Will & Karen: first person. No, I was thinking like marijuana. I don't

Cheri: All the boys are like masturbation. I was like, oh no, that's terrible And then there was a little boy out there who was like 12 years old and he's meditated with me a thousand times His parents are big meditators. They come on retreats and he said no it's meditation.

So it has a happy ending. Okay Oh my

Will & Karen: Excuse me. Yes, it does.

Cheri: terrible Okay, can

Will & Karen: Either way you look at it. Either way you look at it.

Cheri: you have a dirty mind and still meditate? Yes, because once you start looking at all of these benefits, whatever it is the one that you pick Whatever it is the one you pick You will magically get that benefit if you start meditating. I mean, it's, it's unbelievable, but you will also get a benefit that I could, that no one can predict.

Like if you really do decide that you're going to do it every single day, like brushing your chops. I mean, nobody says to me, I don't have time to brush my chops. Right? Like, come on. Come on. It's [00:18:00] not negotiable. You're brushing your chomps. And if you miss a day, fine. I mean, these people are like, I haven't missed a day in 20 years.

I'm like, whatever. It's usually a man and there's usually a woman behind that man. but it's, it's never a woman saying that. Okay. I'm just throwing that out there. But anyway, side note. You know, there are these people who say, I haven't missed a day of meditation in 20. It doesn't matter if you miss a day.

Have you missed a day brushing your chomps? You're fine. You're fine. Get on to the next day. Get on to the day that you're in. Get on to this moment. Not five minutes from now or this moment right here or right here. How I'm going to end this sentence right now. Now, right now, this one right here. This is it.

This is all we got. Nothing's going to happen in the future. It happened. Now, nothing's going to happen in the past. It happened right now. And if you're saying shit, like I can't believe it's Halloween and I can't believe it's Thanksgiving and I can't believe it's Christmas, why can't you believe it? Okay.

You need to be in the moment that you are in. Christmas always comes [00:19:00] after Thanksgiving. Why can't you believe it? Why are you saying things about your kids? Like when he walks, I'll be happier when he goes to kindergarten. I'll be happy when, then shit, none of us get out of here alive. You have no idea how much time you have.

Take the time that you have right. Now and now, and then this, now, this is it. This is all you got. All you're going to take with you, wherever you go is your consciousness. Work on it a little bit. You know, if you work on being distracted all damn day, you're going to get real good at it. And everybody wants to impress me.

I got ADHD. I'm like, join the club. Everybody, you got a phone. You're good. You got it. You're you're you are meeting symptomology. Usually if you are remotely complaining about that, and it's because you're getting really good at it, you're practicing it. So maybe practice being quiet. Practice being calm, practice breathing slower, practice mantra, practice.

And that's the other thing too. Nobody knows what meditation is. That's why it sucks. They don't know [00:20:00] what to do when they go sit down.

Will & Karen: That was going to be my next question, actually. Am I doing it right? Oh,

Cheri: monks can, but like even they, for they, they keep coming back.

You know what I mean? It's the same thing. So you're not trying to clear your thoughts. Meditation isn't thinking about nothing, no thing. It's concentrating on. one thing. Okay. And you know, this gets into the yoga philosophy and without doing that, if you can focus on one thing, it's incredibly calming. And the thing that we always have with us is our breath.

So when I teach meditation to kindergartners, they're so cute. I'm like, who here is breathing? And they all check. They're like, You know what I mean? And then I go in to talk to lawyers, which for some reason I'm always talking to lawyers. I, I just got another gig today with lawyers. Because these guys are stressed out.

You know what I mean? They have no idea how to, they have no idea how to meditate. And I say, who here is breathing? And they're like, they don't even, they don't check. [00:21:00] Right? How do you know? You got to check. Okay? And I'm, I live in the South, which is so funny, because people, I'm not from the South. I know I don't come across as Southern.

I'm from Detroit. Okay? I'm from Detroit. Except the people here are so sweet. They say all the time, they'll say it's a part of their culture. They'll say, Hey, I'm going to say a prayer for you. And I'm always like, Right now, like, or later, like, are you going to call me? Like, when will I know it went out?

Like, how am I going to know that you did it? You know? And it's the same thing with breathing. They're like, I'm going to take a breath, take a deep breath. And they're like, okay. And I'm like, did you take it? You didn't take it. No one took it. No. One's doing it. Everyone's talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, pose, pose, posers.

And down by the beach and I'm all dressed in white and I'm like, I don't, that's not it. That's not what this is. This is every single day, not negotiable, brushing your chops. You want someone to take a picture of you brushing your chops or sleeping? No. Okay. This is a private, personal thing. You don't even need to tell anyone you're doing it.

You can keep it private. Every time my husband's like, I'm not telling anybody for five years that I'm [00:22:00] meditating. I'm like, I'm telling everybody. I'm just kidding. But I will tell you this. My husband had. The doctors told me, thankfully, after his surgery, that it was the most extensive surgery that a human can endure.

Okay? It was like 14 hours. It was terrible. I tell him it was so much worse for me. I mean, he was sleeping. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Okay, you guys, for those of you that are listening, I just made like a funny, like, I was joking. That was, you know.

Will & Karen: Disclaimer.

Cheri: A disclaimer. But, but when, when he came out of it in his room, I had it all decked out and the Buddha's medicines and the Jesus shawls and all the things and the bullshit and the incense and the crystals and everything.

There was stuff everywhere. Because hospitals are a horrible place to heal. But once he was dealing with this incredible amount of pain, he wanted to sit. He wanted to sit. He did not Want the pain pills like I made him take some pain pills, but like he wanted to sit He always preferred that over it and i'd read all the studies about morphine And meditation [00:23:00] being more effective than morphine for pain And I did not believe that I didn't believe them.

I'm like, yeah, it's a bunch of bullshit It's like i'm gonna look at my cushion like an old friend. Yeah, right. I'm doing this so I don't die So I don't have a heart attack, you know what I mean? So I don't freak out so I have a pleasant life so I I could slow down well enough to see something thing, because I am raised up.

I'm like this all the time. My husband's like, okay, time to stop doing cartwheels and handstands. Let's go to bed. I mean, I have a lot of energy and meditation will also help with that. If you're feeling like once you spent some time being calm. Okay. I mean, if, if this might be shocking, but I used to just say whatever I thought all the time.

Now I have a little bit of a filter, a little bit of a filter, but like, I'm just saying, I'm so happy. I just want you to have this. Right? So when I see these people who come in and, you know, I got a friend who's also a therapist and he always says, you can't quit your private practice. But I want to tell as many people as I possibly can, [00:24:00] please just try this and then tell me it didn't work.

You know what I mean? Like on my tombstone, y'all can write. Like, what if it works? What if it does, what if it works? And you have this magical benefit and then you have the magical benefit. My benefit is I have never saw a sunset until after I've been meditating for probably 12 years. Like I never even noticed one.

I was too busy. Do you know what I'm saying? And now I don't want to miss any. I have one painted in my little meditation room. I, I don't, I want to see him all the time. Last night I said to my husband last night, I said, is this a joke? Like. Are these how sunsets have always been? I mean, there's like tears running down my face.

Like, I mean, this, this is not my cup of tea. This is not who I am, but it's definitely who you want to be because you allow yourself to step aside and you get to be who you really are, which is a holy and divine and creative creation and creator. I mean, you're, you're, you're lovely and, and, and [00:25:00] you don't really get a chance to, to face yourself like that.

You know.

Will & Karen: I'm making a big mistake here. I'm feeling like I'm listening to your show. I just love the way you talk. So I just like, I'll just let you talk. I'm not listening to her show. She's on my show. I got to ask a question. I have a question too. Okay.

Cheri: Okay, let's hear it. Let's hear

Will & Karen: first.

Okay. So you get up, pee, go downstairs to the room. How much time, are we talking about 15 minutes, 30 minutes? What are we looking at here? Yeah.

Cheri: for the rest of our life, okay. Like brushing your teeth or whatever. My daughter sits a timer for two minutes. She brushed her teeth for two minutes. Can you believe that? I guess that's the recommended I dunno, I don't do that. I don't do that.

You're trying to do this forever. Okay. Not to January 31st or like this year or whatever, right? You want to do it forever. And so my clients all start with three minutes. Okay.

Will & Karen: Wow. Three minute meditation, but it[00:26:00]

Cheri: Guess what? It's better than zero minutes. That's A.

Will & Karen: doesn't let me even, I don't relax until like 20 minutes into it. I can't

Cheri: know, I know, I know. So you are learning how to make showing up habitual first, okay? So you come and you sit for three minutes. Now I don't know if you've listened to the show about motivation, but you know, there's three little motivators that I always talk

Will & Karen: I listened to every one of your shows. So we're clear.

Cheri: it's so funny too, because I just hit record and then I just started talking about whatever the other day, my boy, he's doing my editing.

He's like, I can't, I'm not really doing that much. You're just talking. Okay, so there are three mothers of motivation. The moms, I like to call them. Okay. The big dogs. Okay. And the first one is you got to feel good. Okay, and, and so in order to do that, motivation comes after action, not before. Motivation comes after action, not before, [00:27:00] after, okay? If you think it comes before, you're thinking of inspiration.

That's great, right? And like, you know, if you watch a Rocky movie, I'm dating myself, but if you watch a Rocky movie, you might feel like you want to go learn how to box or whatever, but if you like run up and down the stairs in Philadelphia, like. You know, you're going to have motivation movement. Okay. And the second one is little by little, little by little, little bit, you get a little bit better and a little bit better.

And the next thing, you know, you're a lot better. Okay. And then the third one, and this is the tough one, and this is the one you're talking about, will is that when you go there and you're like, Cheri doesn't know what she's talking about. I'm. I feel great. It's only been three minutes. I'm going to keep meditating, right? What happens is, is you feel motivated because you just meditated for three minutes. If you feel great and it's in alignment with your true purpose, okay, because you really want to be a meditator, like you're into it, right? But you have to leave on a high note because motivation means you want more. [00:28:00] And if you sit there for 20 minutes, your brain's like.

I'm not doing that tomorrow. Your ego. No, no. I don't have time for that shit. Okay? I'm not doing that. Okay? That's not, we have to do this, this, this, and it's gonna pick three different categories of all the reasons why you can't do it. It usually has to do with your body, time, or your environment. You're gonna pick one of those things. Be like, I'm out. I gotta make the lunches. Okay. I don't have time for that. I gotta clean. Okay. This, my, my hip hurts when I sit that long. Okay. Okay. All these reasons why. You're not going to sit there. And so the third one is you have to leave on a high note. You have to leave wanting more. So if you're running and you're running and you're like, sure.

He said eight minutes run. Yeah, whatever. I feel great. I'm going to keep running. I'm going to keep running. I'm going to keep running. I'm going to know my neighbors and I feel great. What if you would stop right then? And this is a great example. Have you met anybody playing pickleball? They're shopping on a [00:29:00] high note.

They're the happiest people on earth. They're like, it's amazing. They're not at the end of it. They're not talking about the scores. No one tells me if they're any good. They're just doing it. You know what I mean? It's that's it. That's all they're doing is it they're just showing up and they are pumped.

Okay. They're the most happy people in the world. Two, a couple of retreats ago. I called our group text. The pickleball enthusiast because I use that as an example and everybody they're like pickleball and they went on and on and on about how great it is. All I'm saying is you got to be in it to win it.

You got to be doing it. Okay. And what you want is for your brain to go. I want to do that again. And so the next morning when you get up to rise, be meditate, you're going to show up because it's only three minutes. And that's an argument you can win with yourself sitting.

Will: let's take a break and we'll be right back.

Will: And now back to the skeptic metaphysicians.

[00:30:00]

Will & Karen: So then when do you expand that or do you not do you do three minutes for the rest of your life or do you? Expand it out to 10 15 20. Eventually.

Cheri: You do. So you make it longer. Now, is this, this is going to get like the after hours thing again. Deeper is better than longer.

Will & Karen: I hear that all the time

Cheri: Okay. Deeper is better than longer. Okay. So you want to have a more, you want to have a really good experience. Okay. Rather than you know, sitting there and, and like clutching, you know, the, the wheel sort of thing. And, and there will come a time where it's really easy. I have this amazing client who I mean, he would be a very, it's funny because all my clients are like, My clientele are very lucky therapists.

I have a very diverse crowd and none of them look like meditators. None of them look like yoga teachers. None of them look, none of them. I mean, they're all [00:31:00] be like, that person's meditating. You'd be really shocked, but one of them, and he's, you know, he's, he's from Georgia and he he ups his meditation 30 second intervals.

So his brain won't notice them.

Will & Karen: Does he set a clock or how

Cheri: Yes. Okay, so I'm very opinionated about that. You don't want to have an

Will & Karen: you

Cheri: I know I can't believe it. So you want to have an alarm that's not very alarming, right? Like my first alarm was like Krishna Das or something like that. Someone's singing pretty things to me now I'm listening to Patti Griffin.

Oh my gosh. She's got you know Oh, there's so many good Petty Griffin songs. Like you want to pick, you want to pick something that's lovely to hear because when you're done meditating, you know, I think it was Paramahansa Yogananda said, you know, you don't want to milk the cow and then jump up and kick the milk over, like, you know, just like sit there for a second, right?

So after your three minutes, you might open your eyes and just sit there. [00:32:00] Okay, I think I'm really bad at remembering who said what, but I think it was Edison that said something like, you know, all of our problems stem from the fact that we can't sit in a room quietly for 15 minutes doing absolutely nothing.

I mean, he nailed that in a time when we're not even dealing with this, right?

Did I answer your question though? Because you said you rise, you get up.

Will & Karen: you extend it out and you said, yes, 30 second increments, and then you

Cheri: I would do it. I would take a long, long time to do it. I would take your time like we use the term. There's a great, there's a great book. I don't think it's called take your time, but it's something by Eknath Aswar and he does a beautiful job of talking about slowing down and actually take your time with this, you know, take it seriously.

Okay, take it as seriously as you have teeth and mouth health, you know what I mean? You know, nobody says I don't have time to brush my teeth or I I miss brushing my teeth So I'm never gonna do it again, or I'm gonna wait till my parents, you know, leave this house Because they're [00:33:00] visiting I'm gonna wait till this vacations over to brush my teeth.

Nobody says that okay Like this is your ego trying to get you to stop because when you're quiet your ego is not there and that's scary for you You Okay, and so your ego's like I make coffee and I let dogs out and I clean up and I do this and I get The paper and I look at this and I do that like it wants to own you.

Okay

Will & Karen: if you are already a meditator and three minutes may seem to be too short, it's clarifying. It's cool to do 10 minutes, right? Or 15 to start with that. Or do you suggest everyone start back at three minutes?

Cheri: Well if you're trying to show up every day, I then I would start at five or seven minutes I would probably still bring it down really low and I would always use an odd number because your brain like loves odd numbers That's why we click on links that say 11 things you know, the click bait is always odd numbers.

So I would use an odd number. I would use seven minutes then. And you know, because your goal has changed. It's not to meditate sometimes perfectly. It's to [00:34:00] meditate every single day for the rest of your life. Okay? And you think about these benefits. They're great. They're wonderful. There's a million of them.

I can't even imagine how many I've gotten. I mean, I mean, it's, it's amazing. But you don't get them unless you do it, you have to do it. You have to sit there. Okay. There's a lot of posters out there talking, talking, talking. You sit, sit, sit.

Will & Karen: you mentioned earlier that that meditation is not clearing your mind. It's thinking about one thing. Yes or no guided meditations versus silent meditations versus music meditations. do you have advice as to which one you use?

Cheri: Yes. You know, I do. You know, I do yes. So guided meditation is great. I kind of like to think of it. Like if you go to Colorado and you want to go skiing, you will probably get someone to teach you how to go down the mountains because it's like serious skiing in Colorado, right? If you really want to seriously learn how [00:35:00] to do it, you're going to get a teacher and you know, binaural beats guided meditation, those types of things.

They show you, this is what it's like. This is where you're going. This is how you do your feet. This is how you do your poles. This is how you get on the lift. This is where, you know, this might help, this might not help, right? But what you really want is a formal sitting practice where you're not listening to anything and because then you're just listening to music.

Then you're just listening to someone talk. I find them now kind of distracting. But sometimes it can be fun to have, like, a guided meditation. You're gonna hate this answer, but use guided meditation in those after you get the hang of sitting, okay? Use them as your second meditation of the day. Yes, there could be two, eventually.

Will & Karen: So I only rise in pee once. Well, that's not, that's not true. I'm, I'm over 50. So that happens a lot, actually. [00:36:00] Sometimes I've heard it say too much is too much. So you think more than one is okay a day? Mm hmm.

Cheri: I think more than one is okay if you're doing it every single day for, like, a year.

Will & Karen: So how many? Two? Five? Twelve? Wait, odd numbers? Thirteen?

Cheri: How many times a day?

Will & Karen: What do you recommend? Twice a day?

Cheri: Mm hmm,

Will & Karen: Okay.

Cheri: but first see that's the thing. We really love to start at the goal. We're like January 1st I'm gonna be running two miles a day. I'm like, dude, you don't say January 1st I'm gonna be playing Jimi Hendrix licks if you ain't ever pick up a guitar, you know, I'm saying you can't start at the goal Okay, you gotta start you gotta think of your body like food.

You can't just eat Believe me, if you could eat all your meals for the whole year in one day, I would sign up. I would pay and be done and not have to eat. It's such an inconvenience. It's a pain in the ass. I hate making dinner. I hate it. I'm a mom. I know it's terrible. I'm a terrible mother. It's such a drag.

By the time, by the end of the day, I'm not hungry. How are these people constantly eating all [00:37:00] day? All they do is eat. I can't believe they're not 500 pounds. I'm like, God, it's constant eating. Okay. But if I could, I would eat all my meals in one day. But remember the mother's a motivation. The second one is little by little.

You, you can't do that. You can only eat a cup a little bit each day. Okay. To maintain what you want. So you need to think of meditation like that. That's how your brain works. That's why when you go to clean your whole garage in one day, you're like, I'm going to keep it organized and it's going to be great.

And it's going to be perfect. And then your brain's like, I'm never doing this again. I missed all my shows. I didn't have a fun Saturday. I'm letting it get messy again. That's why we do it once, twice, three times a year, all day long.

but what you would do instead is maybe just the bikes, you know, and then you leave yourself wanting more because motivation comes after action.

And then you want to do more and you say, Cheri doesn't know. I'm just going to do the whole garage, but I'm just saying, what would it be like if you just did a little bit there and you practiced. Showing up you practice being quiet and that you know that also gets into the like, you [00:38:00] know Running is my meditation and I that doesn't make it I mean like that's like saying talking is my singing and you know breathing is my jogging or so I'm like that doesn't mean you're that's the difference between mindfulness and And meditation.

I hate the word mindful because like, isn't our mind already full? I should be mindless, right? I don't know. But anyway, what you want to do is like they say in London, you know, you have to mind the gap. You got to be in the thing that you're doing right. Like so earlier, I was having a very frustrating situation.

Uploading homecoming photos to Dropbox. Each one took five seconds. I was like, I mean, it was taking forever. Right. And I'm just like sitting there like this. And I was like, OK. How many breaths can I, okay, take five breaths. And I was like, well, can I get it to three breaths? You know, one breath, you know, like take advantage of the situation that you are in, you know, like Joe Dispense is so funny.

He's like, you got to hurry up and get up to go to work. Then [00:39:00] you hurry up and have lunch and then hurry up and drive home and then hurry up and watch a show and then hurry up and eat your thing and then hurry up and go to bed so you can hurry up and get up. He's like, where are you going? You're already there.

You're here. What are you doing here? How are you going to spend your time here? The best way to spend your time here is spending a little time. And if I could do this, I mean, come on, if I can do this, y'all can do this. Yeah. Okay. You can,

Will & Karen: We can do it. We're gonna have to bring her back on the show. Yes. Because we haven't even gotten deeper into the thing. So how well we're doing. With our

Cheri: yes, I need updates. I need updates.

Will & Karen: Right. Right.

Cheri: So today I was telling my boy, I'm teaching him how to drive. Whoa. We got on the highway today. I was like, let me tell you something. None of this happens in Detroit. Everybody know how their car goes. You know what I mean?

Just worry about this here in Atlanta. All right. So, Rye, you're going to send me a text. And you're going to say, rise, pee, meditate, or I did it, or whatever, okay, [00:40:00] for three minutes. That's it. Tell me that you're not dying to get back to the cushion after three minutes. You're going to be like, I want to, and then you're gonna be like, I found a feather, and I'm going to put it in my meditation spot.

And then like, you're going to be like, and then I found this picture of my grandma, and there's so much, put it right there. And like, you're going to want to make that space really pretty. And all of a sudden, you're going to look to it like it's an

Will & Karen: we're going to name it Gladys. Gladys. Gladys.

Cheri: friend. Yay.

Will & Karen: Gwendolyn. Because we'll be glad. Oh, I see what you're doing. I just came to you right now.

Cheri: Karen, that is hot. That's hot. I like that. That's really hot.

Will & Karen: All right. When you say deeper is better than longer, what makes something deeper? What makes a deep meditation deep? If you're just sitting in silence.

Cheri: what you're learning, you know, when you focus on one thing, a mantra, your breath, whatever it is, whatever we call our anchor, that's going to be our one thing that we focus on. You know, you might have a moment or flash where you're kind of in between, [00:41:00] like, so to say, like the notes of the music, right?

Where there's just silence. There's nothing there. Right. As soon as you realize that, of course, you're thinking about it and it's over. Right. But really, what we're trying to do is change our brain waves into alpha, theta, whatever waves, and so without falling asleep. Okay. And when we do that, when we maintain that, you have these moments, my husband calls it like dropping in.

You know, I dropped in. My clients will say I dropped in. And it's just like this, right? And what you want are a couple more. If you're having 60, 000 thoughts a day, what if you had 50, 000? What if you had 30, 000? What if you're like me and you had 80, 000? I'm just kidding. Okay.

Will & Karen: 1 million.

Cheri: Right. And so you, you, what you want is a meaningful experience.

And so that's why I tell people you know, a lot of people assume that I'm an MBSR practitioner because I'm a social worker. That's really popular in my business.

Will & Karen: I'm sorry. M-B-S-R-I.

Cheri: based stress reduction

and [00:42:00] it's, you know, a very practical physiological way to look at meditation. It's great. I tell people, even though I'm a social worker, I think because I'm a social worker, I tell people bring whatever it is that means anything to you there, the feather, Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Susie, Patsy, Jimmy, whatever you call it, bring it to that cushion because there are many paths to one truth.

And you are kind of, you're in touch with yourself, what you're, what you're going to realize is the thoughts that are coming and coming and coming, that you're separate from them right now. You might feel like that's you, right, but you're separate from those things and you just don't take it so seriously.

And I think that's why my favorite benefit of meditation, which these, you know, these, these clinicians are having difficulty like defining, you know, it's coming across as like people are more real. Like they feel more wise, they feel more compassionate, you know, those [00:43:00] things that everybody wants. Because I think sometimes people think, well, I'm going to be too chill or my personality.

I mean, like my personality is clearly still here. Okay. I'm like, this is it. This is who you get. You know what I mean? But I think seeing myself separate from that you know, it's so, it's such a relief, you know, because it's, it's exhausting. You know, it's, it's this constant running thoughts and judgments.

I mean, it's, there's nothing you could do about it except maybe take a break from it. You know, Michael Singer does a really good job in one of his books when he says, you know, I can prove to you that there's two of you. You know, he'll say, if I gave you a pill and I said, I could, we could get rid of those thoughts, just for like 10 minutes, you know, would you take it?

And everyone's like, yeah, hell yeah. I just got the chills. I'm like, I want one, right? But if I said, how about the one that's listening to that? If I gave you a pill to get rid of that, would you want that? You're like, no. No, because that's you. That's you. That is you. [00:44:00] Those thoughts ain't you, okay? We think they're important because we keep going to them just like we think wordle's important because we keep going to it, right?

We think it's, it's, it's important because we hear it over and over again and what we think about, you know, If we think about something long enough, you know, we think it's true whether it's true or not That's why people drink the Kool Aid, you know what I'm saying?

Will & Karen: Yeah.

Cheri: So You have to spend some time facing yourself and then you get this massive benefit of being like, oh, really that's not it

Will & Karen: All right. So I, I lost track again 'cause I just started listening to you. I started listening to your show once again when you were on my show. Uhhuh. . deeper means losing yourself completely.

Cheri: Yeah, and just just be okay with it It's a little scary at first when you slip into those little moments right and Wayne Dyer has great books if you want to pick up some of his old old books about how to slip into the Into the gap You know, and he's got, you know, like our, you know, like, like I pledge allegiance or our father, you [00:45:00] know, like our father, our father slip in there, like, like try to find the spaces, you know, but deeper just means you're not sitting there thinking about laundry.

Will & Karen: can't be your one thing.

Cheri: like laser focus on something,

Will & Karen: Yeah,

Cheri: will be times where you sit around and think about, think about laundry. If you're going to do this every day, you're going to have good times, bad times. And all these monks and sages say, it doesn't matter. Just go sit again.

Will & Karen: I think that's probably gonna be the hardest thing for me is, stopping thinking about doing laundry.

Cheri: you don't have to stop thinking about

Will & Karen: gotta get him to start thinking about it.

Cheri: You need to, this is what you do. You tell yourself you have three jobs. You go, this is from Kelly McGonigal, by the way, you go and sit down. Okay. You're going to remain completely still for three minutes or five minutes or seven minutes. However you're starting, please don't go over seven minutes unless you want to be unsuccessful.

You sit completely still with your eyes closed, sitting up. Okay. You're not leaning back on something and you're not leaning forward on something. You're sitting up. Okay. [00:46:00] That's your first job. Okay, your second job is to just notice that you're breathing as if someone else is breathing for you Okay, cuz someone else kind of is I mean we go to bed every night and we breathe all night like I'm not doing It are you doing it?

I don't know who's doing someone's doing that. It ain't me. Okay, so you're just gonna watch it So you're not going to change it and make it deeper or shallower and be like, my breath is no good or it's too long, it's too short, like judgment, whatever. You're just going to notice that you're breathing.

Okay, your brain is going to find this incredibly boring. Okay, right away. It's going to be like, I want to think about lunchtime. I want to think about later. I want to go to work. I want to do this. This is boring. This is boring. I've made a mistake yesterday. I should do this. I should do that. All the shoulds.

All this running stuff. Your third job is to just notice that and come back to the breath, okay? If you notice that and come back to the breath 500 more times than me, you're going to benefit from that sit more than me. Okay, so if you're terrible at this, [00:47:00] awesome. Okay, like it's okay to be terrible at it. That's it. One, two, three. You sit quietly. You notice your breath. When you space out, you come back to the breath. That's the practice because every time you come back to the breath, and maybe we can talk about this next time, you have physiological changes in your brain, in your prefrontal cortex that show up only about after about three weeks, four weeks of meditating.

Will & Karen: Well, if you enjoyed listening to Cheri today, Then you got to check out her show, stress therapy, right? Because not only do you do exactly what you just did is giving us practical advice on how to continue the meditate, but then. You actually do it with us, right? You go through a meditation every show too.

So if you enjoyed Cheri today on our show, do yourself a favor and go subscribe to her show, Stress Therapy, because it is [00:48:00] really, it is so, it is, it's, it's one of my favorites. I'm fine. We met. because I was a listener to your show,

Cheri: I know. I love that. That's so sweet.

Will & Karen: It is a great show. And I, I can't recommend it enough, but if someone wanted to reach out to you to maybe go on some of your treats that you do, which are really cool or learn meditation from you directly, or if they're in the Atlanta area, wanted to bring you on as their best way for someone to reach out to you?

Cheri: com. It's not a stress therapist. It's the stress

Will & Karen: because of course there can only be one. Only

Cheri: There's only one. If you can't remember that, it's, you can go to ilovetherapy. com too. That's the same place. But you can, you can also shoot me an email. I'll root for you. I mean, I love, I, I will root for you. I will, I will help you along. I mean, I, sometimes I do these interviews on like script news or [00:49:00] whatever, and they'll, they'll act like they're all interested and they'll be like, okay, did you do it? So I really want to be around people. Yeah. I really want to be around people who actually want to do it, you know, and it's, it's fun to, of course, I think it's fun to talk about it, but you don't have to, you can keep it private. It can be your own private thing, or you can just tell me, you don't have to tell your spouse or your neighbor or anyone.

You can just kind of see, have it, let it be your own little adventure, your own little piece of joy, your own sunset.

Will & Karen: And so for those of you who are just starting out with meditation or having a hard time, this is the perfect way forward. For those of you who are already seasoned meditators, you already know the benefits of meditation, but are having a hard time sticking to it. This is a perfect way to do it also.

So.

Cheri: And I even have on my retreats, people that are doing it twice a day, every day, they still come on the retreat. So I have one in the mountains. That's pretty immersive. You know, you are meditating and eating amazing food and then doing yoga and then meditating and eating amazing food in the middle and doing yoga.[00:50:00]

pretty immersive. And then I have one at Jekyll Island right off the coast of Georgia. We just did one during Hurricane Helene. That was a trip, but we did it, and it was great.

Will & Karen: And if you can keep meditating during that, you can keep meditating on anything.

Cheri: I mean, it was amazing. I can't believe how everybody I was like, Is everybody okay? They were like, We're great. I was like, We don't have any power. We don't have any cell service. We were using our paper maps to get to our beautiful beaches to meditate. Eso if you want to come, I'm really trying to serve my community here in Georgia.

You know, I'm licensed in Georgia. That's probably why, but I'm happy to hear about all your endeavors across the world. I love hearing from everybody everywhere about how they're meditating and actually showing up, actually doing it. And then, you know, with their own little stories that I just, I could never, you know, it's anyone's guess how it's going to be for you.

It's anyone's guess. And I don't want you to miss it. I don't want you to miss out on it. I want it to be your, your little private joy. I want it to be your sunset.

Will & Karen: Oh my God. You are so joyful. Just that [00:51:00] energy. It's like shooting out of our computer at us. Thank you so much. This is just beautiful.

Cheri: You guys are so sweet. I'm so happy I was on the show.

Will & Karen: Well, it's not gonna be the, it's not gonna be the last time, Cheri, you, you are quickly becoming one of our absolute favorite guests. You were already one of our favorite people. So this is just brings you to a whole other level. Yeah. All right, Cheri, thanks so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom with with us.

We look forward to doing many more of these in the future.

Cheri: I can't wait.

Will: And a huge thank you to you. We know that there are tons of options out there and having you decide to come along on our journey of discovery with us is an absolute honor for us. If you know someone who would benefit from hearing the message we're sharing on the show, do them and us a favor and share the show with them.

It will help get the word out about us and it might just change someone's life for the better. Well, that's all for now, but we'll see you on the next episode of The Skeptic Metaphysician. Until then, take care. [00:52:00]