Are Mediums the Real Deal? Son of a Psychic Medium & Certified Expert Reveals Truth!

Will & Karen: [00:00:00] Karen. Yes. What if everything you thought you knew about life and what comes after turned completely upside down? Uh, I don't even know how to respond to that. What if the mysteries of the soul were less about ghosts in the attic and more about science, love, and, well, someone who knows their way around the afterlife better than you know your way around a GPS?

Well, I like that. I thought you might. And what if the answer came from someone whose life story is as extraordinary as the question itself? Then I want to hear that story. Well, then on today's episode, we are diving deep into the mysteries of the soul, the science of mediumship, and the surprising connections that can change everything you believe about loss, love, and life itself.

Stick around because by the end of this conversation, not only will Well, you have a new perspective on life after death, but you might just find yourself Googling how to become a certified medium tester. [00:01:00] It is a thing. And trust me, you're about to see the world and the universe in an entirely new light.

Welcome to the Skeptic Metaphysicians.

Hey there, I'm Will. And I'm Karen. And today our guest is Mark Ireland. He's an esteemed author, a spiritual researcher, and the co founder of the widely acclaimed organization Helping Parents Heal, which supports over [00:02:00] 30, 000 bereaved parents worldwide. Now Mark is the author of two highly regarded books, Soul Shift, Finding Where the Dead Go, and The Persistence of the Soul, both of which explore the profound questions surrounding life after death and a journey of the soul.

Now, as the son of renowned mid 20th century psychic Richard Ireland, Mark's life has been uniquely intertwined with the realms of spirituality and mediumship. He's participated in groundbreaking mediumship research studies with institutions like the University of Arizona and the University of Virginia, right down the street.

And he now operates a medium certification program, setting rigorous standards for ethical and evidential mediumship. Now, Mark's work bridges the gap between science and spirituality, offering insight, hope, and healing to those seeking answers about the afterlife. Please join me in welcoming Mark Ireland to the show.

Mark, how you doing? Nice to be here

Mark: great. I don't know if I'm esteemed or [00:03:00] acclaimed, but I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Will & Karen: Well, we, uh, we believe that you are both, so we are thrilled to have you with us. Um, now right off the bat, I've got to ask the biggest question that comes to mind. You, in your book, your latest book, you said you've got compelling evidence for, um, life after death, for lack of a better word, right.

For communicate, communicating with those that have crossed over. What is this compelling evidence that you have found?

Mark: It's

really a,

I'd say a body of

evidence. Um, I've been

mostly

focused on the mediumship part of it because that's what I grew up with. It's the father I had,

but also I've met people in

other. parts of the, um,

the research

community

that studied near death

experiences

and like, so the way I look at it,

it's kind of like when

you look

at all these various things and put them together, they form a mosaic that's highly

not saying it's any one

thing. It's the cross [00:04:00] section of evidence, uh, between various

disciplines, mediumship, near

death

experiences,

deathbed

visitations, reincarnation research, all these things put together.

But from my, through my

own lens,

it's been

a lot of, uh,

direct.

Experiences with

mediumship that, um,

that

were very

compelling.

Will & Karen: So when you talk about, you know, these, um, things coming together in the crosshairs, are you looking, when you're doing for the research, are you looking for commonalities?

Like, is, is

Mark: So first off, I'm

not

really an official

scientific researcher.

I'm somebody who

grew up with a father who had

these abilities.

I saw them demonstrated from a

young age.

and they gave

me

an inner sense

of peace and

kind of

like, wow,

you know, we're really more

than

just a body and a brain.

And there must

be

something, Part of

us that

continues on

or already

existed. Um, and we just

spent

you know, part of our lives in

this, in

this body.

Uh, so having had that [00:05:00] experience growing

up.

I didn't really

take the

path of my father. You know,

I

was in a much more

conventional streamlined path down,

getting a college

degree getting married young and having

kids It was

really the unexpected

passing my

youngest

son that drew me back into the

field

that my

father had been in all

those years.

And so

that's how I

got engaged with people who do the research

Will & Karen: and, um,

Mark: um, and some of these mediums

that are some

of the top

ones in the

world. And, uh, it's been very rewarding to

me

and

actually, you know, getting

involved

in some

experiments and

also

putting together, as you

mentioned earlier, this medium

certification program to help vet

people

so that

grieving

folks who are seeking out somebody

legitimate

have a path to

go down. So

I don't think I answered your question

directly,

but I had to

kind of correct

the,

um,

the idea that I

am a scientific

researcher because I'm not I know

people in the

field.

I am

science

minded

I believe

in the [00:06:00] scientific process

And

I've applied it in some of

the things that I

do and participated with some of these folks in in conducting

things

Um, so I don't know if that answers your

question,

if not

fire

Will & Karen: again It answers it well enough well enough, okay, well good well You've mentioned your father and I've got we would be remiss if we didn't at least touch on it because growing up with someone as unique as Um, Dr. Richard Ireland, um, it surprises me that you consider yourself to be, like you just, you walked away from that whole world and you went more, the more pragmatic path.

But you lived with it your entire life. Was it not super evident to you that this was all legit or did you think dad is going crazy?

Mark: No, it was,

I knew it

was legit. I

mean, I lived

with

it day to day. Dad

knew

everything that was going on. Like

um, some of

my older brother,

you

know,

when [00:07:00] he had people buying him

beer when he

was under

age, dad

busted

that

when he was drag

racing, he busted

that,

you know, my brother

said

to him

one day, how would you like to have a dad?

Like you,

Will & Karen: I would've been in big trouble.

Mark: parents Early in their

marriage,

and this is just the psychic

stuff, you

know, but the

mediumship stuff was more compelling to

me when I saw that.

early in my

parents marriage,

my mom was

attempting to

be a vegetarian for a while, And within a couple months, I think, without eating any

meat,

but one

day she just had this

Will & Karen: had this

Mark: to get a

burger and she went

out

and got this

burger and

ate it,

came back home. And

later that evening dad gets back in and the first words out of his

mouth

are, so

surely did you enjoy

your burger today?

that's what

life was

like.

Um,

but I relished it too

because I saw him

touch a

lot of people's lives in very positive

ways, both healing from

maybe loss,

but just as much like

giving people confidence and direction

that they

needed. [00:08:00] when they were

kind of in a

bad spot.

So,

um,

but I

just didn't feel like I

was the same

person. My dad

always said, Oh, Mark's very psychic. He'd tell people, Mark's very psychic. I'm like, No, no, I

can't do what you do.

I

didn't really

understand what it means to

be

psychic. Cause all

of us

are to

some degree. I think it just

varies. There's kind of

a

spectrum for how much people have this ability or don't.

Um,

but

The other thing

is, how

many of us want to grow up to be our parent,

you know?

we kind of want to forge our own path and be our own

person.

and I'm just

that my personality is different than my dad's. I'm more

Will & Karen: um,

Mark: reserved,

more conservative,

maybe,

where he was very

out there and willing to

stick his neck out. And I've become more

like

that as time's gone on, obviously, for me to get back in this

field, write these

books,

Get in,

uh, help

co found an organization that now has 31, 000 members

where we talk about this stuff and

have

conferences and all

that.

I, I just feel like almost like

my

purpose [00:09:00] in

life

was to be

like I am.

so

that I

could bring a

higher

level of

credibility

to all

this stuff.

For

the people who are

in

it for the

right reasons. And who have the

ability and those

people who research it,

Um, and I'm

reaching

really,

I'm

trying to

reach the.

grassroots level, you know,

the average person

out there,

more than to try and convince

hardcore

skeptics,

because that's

a waste of my

time. I want to help

Will & Karen: people. Sure. Yeah. Really, if you're that skeptical, no matter what you say or do, right, science can't measure what you do or what you talk about. There's no way for it to measure, and it probably Well, maybe I won't say ever, but at some point, maybe they'll be able to measure it. But right now, science, if they can't measure it, it doesn't exist.

Right. So, um, it's

Mark: you can't weigh it. you

can't, you

know, see how long it

is, you know,

that

kind of stuff. It's, it's

different, But then again,

you know,

Quantum mechanics is

different

too.

And

it doesn't,

you know,

fit the

rules of

Newtonian

physics and all the things we thought we

knew. and it's still not

understood

Will & Karen: fully.

[00:10:00] Right? No, that's very true. But yeah, there's no point talking to a pure skeptic because they've already convinced themselves it doesn't exist. It doesn't matter what you say. It's, you can't convince anyone of anything. But those of us who are curious, who are open to the possibilities, this is where it gets exciting.

Your work gets very exciting because you do. Certify mediums so that people that go to these folks can have a semblance of security in that these folks have been vetted. It's not just some, uh, dime store psychic, uh, over a crystal ball staying, uh, or shaking the table with their legs. And it's sad that that's so necessary, but there are those people that will take advantage of people in times of sorrow when they're looking and just desperate to feel some sort of a connection.

And then here comes someone and can tell them anything really and they'll, they'll believe it because they want to. So what you guys are doing is. fantastic.

How

Mark: started a little over

10 years

ago, and It was really in

response to

when my first book, Soul

shift

came

out.

I had people flooding me with [00:11:00] emails

and stuff

asking, oh,

who's a good

medium?

I can

see.

And at that

time I

knew

a handful, but they were more

like

celebrity

mediums or higher Uh,

name

recognition. They had really long wait

lists. Some of

them

charged a

lot

because they could, you know,

but I knew they were

legit,

but

I thought to myself, you know, there

have to

be other people that have this

ability. They're

just

not known

well,

um, and

undiscovered,

And that

was kind of my

idea for putting this

together

and and then,

uh, taking

information

from Dr. Emily Williams Kelley at the University of

Virginia

Division of Perceptual Studies, because

I

had,

uh, participated as a sitter in a test

session, uh, test

experiment. She

did

on some mediums.

um, and found out more about her protocols. And then

I.

Put kind of a basic plan together. And then I

ran

by,

ran those by

Tricia

Robertson,

who's with Scottish

Society of

Psychical

Research.

She's become a good

friend of mine.

And

then she

helped me refine

those. And then over the 10

years, I've [00:12:00] continued to

refine and

raise the

bar again and

again, to

try and

get better and

better

people.

But yeah, that was the whole

idea

behind it.

Um, and I

think

early on, I

remember

maybe we

had.

We're maybe a year

into a

passing of our son or past that

time

and that therapist friend of ours,

who,

their son and our

son had been friends

our son had passed

away, and she sent another couple to us to talk

to them

And

she said, well, how

did you

get through this

And we talked about a lot

of

different things

But one thing I

did touch

on is, you know, evidential mediumship, But

she got

that. anxious and impatient and was driving by one of these

storefront

things like you mentioned

and

she went in there

and

she basically was getting shaken

down

What

happened?

This

woman told

her

some

distressing stuff.

Oh, your

son's stuck. You know,

if you can come

back, I can

remove this spell

for 400.

And it's

like,

A bunch of BS.

And so I talked to her again.

I said, you know, I

told you not

to jump

into

[00:13:00] something like

that. You know,

you need to

go to somebody trustworthy. And

I did steer her that way. And it was helpful later on.

But I have a chapter in my

new

book,

persistence of the Soul,

dedicated

to

helping people know

what

to look for and where to go

so they don't get

tricked

like

that.

But in reality,

I know there are

frauds, but I think

I found

that

there are far more

deluded

people than there are

frauds. There's a lot of people who

think,

oh, I want to be

this, or

I am

this,

and they're really not, or they

have just like that much of it.

But it's not enough

to put them in

front of a grieving

person.

Okay, so that's really where I was coming

from, like to

separate the wheat from the chaff.

So it's a pretty

rigorous

Will & Karen: process.

Yeah, it's a great point. the delusion. I mean, that's a strong word, not that someone's deluded, but rather they, they want to be something so badly that they believe or someone has told them, Oh, you are so psychic. And maybe they just moved down that road. It doesn't help anyone, unfortunately. But so [00:14:00] how, how do you separate the week from the chaff like what is the process like that

for that?

Mark: Sure.

So what, uh, what happens is someone will approach

me

usually by email because they've seen

the

site or heard

about it,

and they'll

say they

want

to be

tested, or they want to

go through the

process to be

certified. I then

vet them initially

just to make sure

they're

not a

trickster or whatever, that

they have a

website.

That

they have a

practice

already

established. Cause I,

Will & Karen: I,

Mark: um, you

know,

I've

tried to

do

some of the

people who are

brand

new, like, Oh, I

just took

this

course. You know,

that usually

doesn't

work very

well. It's gotta

be somebody who's

been in practice for a few years.

And then I

send them

a

document and the

document explains the process,

which basically is

five

readings that they have

to conduct

via

zoom

or some

other

technology.

without

video from

someone they don't

know,

and they only are

given the first name

of the

person at the

beginning

And no

video

on, just audio.

And then,

um,

they spend

[00:15:00] about 10

minutes just

giving whatever they get in

terms

of like, oh, I

feel a

connection

to

a young

man or

whatever.

And

I think their

name

is this

and

you know,

here's some of their

favorite

hobbies or whatever.

And then after

that,

the, the,

um,

the sitter would then

ask, Okay, I want you to

focus on a specific

person.

And this is usually to

redirect if they've not

gotten anything

of some substance,

or if the sitter just

wants

more specific information,

the sitter could say, I'd

like you to

connect to

John,

and,

um,

please tell

me what you can

get. And

then, all this is recorded.

And then at the end, the sitter is

responsible for

transcription.

although some of

the

services now

provide

a

transcription, which

saves a lot of time and energy.

and then they have to break it into

individual

statements and grade

each

statement as

either correct, incorrect,

or indeterminable.

And then

additionally,

if they

get something

highly compelling, like,

okay,

um,

the

medium said the

[00:16:00] name of the

young man

was

Dylan

and that was

right.

That sitter can award bonus

points for hits

like that.

And I think

Dylan's

favorite

food was pizza

with

pepperoni,

black

olives and onions.

Lo and behold, that was correct.

I'm going to

give you a bonus for

that. And we

have two levels of

bonus.

One is higher

than

the

other.

So the higher one

would be the more specific.

But that's kind of a

subjective

thing. that's up to the sitter.

but ultimately,

great for

accuracy. Like what

percent

accuracy is

this reading?

And

then we add bonus

points

to that if there are

any to

be

awarded.

and there's a threshold of 75

that

is required to

pass,

I've had people score in the

mid to

high nineties. Um, which is a combination

of, you know, the

percent accuracy and

any

bonus

points they get. So

not everybody's there. I've

had

a few just

barely speak over, but

I had,

you know, established that

those standards and they

exceeded those. So they deserve to

pass

in a nutshell. That's

how it

Will & Karen: how it

works.

Gotcha. Can anyone become a [00:17:00] sitter?

Mark: Yeah, if you'd like to be one, I'd love

it

because

we get a lot of people that apply for

it, but

they

don't

want

to do the

back end work,

And that's the

tough part. We

need that back end work, and it

needs to be

done in a thoughtful

way.

So either people

take too long.

they never do

it,

or

they

don't do it

Well,

Um, but

yeah, if

you

if you're interested I'd love to

have because

I think people

like you

would be

Will & Karen: be great at this and I was asking For me also, of course But also there's a lot of people that listen to this show that might be interested in helping you out as well Because everyone who is here right now to have the best It's not that we're Believers, but we at least have a vested interest in coming to the truth and finding the truth That's what the show is about.

So folks are listening in either already know. This is real and would love to help to Legitimize it or have are finding out or very curious about it and and would be open to Learning themselves whether or not [00:18:00] they can actually talk to a legit medium.

Mark: So,

uh, What I'm

looking

for if

someone's interested i'd love to have

you apply

Um,

is somebody who

definitely has had

someone

pass. He's very

close to

them. There is a loving relationship

there.

There's got to

be

that for it to

really

work.

Um,

I need

somebody

who's

not brand

new

uh, in

terms of their

grief. Like

it didn't happen two weeks ago.

They

need to be settled down a little

bit. and go through the

grieving

process. I would say

three

months at the

earliest

typically.

Um,

and then

as somebody who's really

balanced and how they look

at things, they're

open minded,

but they're not

going to

just

say,

Oh, because they

want to

feel good, like, Oh,

that's right.

That's right. That's

right.

For a bunch of

general

statements.

but to

be, you know,

balanced in their

percent, but also

not be too

hard on the

media, you

know, it's, it's, you

got to kind

of be there to like,

say, okay,

That's a reasonable thing,

Or

yeah, that applies, that

could

apply to

anybody. You know, I have a grandmother here,

you

know, and,

and the

person's 50 years old.

Of

Will & Karen: old. Of course you

[00:19:00] do. Right. Right.

Mark: So, um,

that's really what I'm looking for.

Those

attributes

make a

good

sitter. And

then

somebody who's

willing to do the

back end

work,

um,

who's detail oriented

enough

to put it

together in a

concise way that, and

I give direction on how I

want it to come

back

to

me so

that it can be

graded and hold up,

And

we review, I have

an

assistant too, she's a volunteer,

but we review those two

and

we look at stuff and

say,

Ah,

this

is

like

too generous

or

this

is

too

stingy

or,

um, and then

we'll

go back to the

sitter

sometimes and

say,

well,

you

gave bonus

points on this.

Why did you do that?

It's not

clear

here.

And

then because there's no

context sometimes for

us

looking at

the, at

the

paper.

So we have to go

back and find

out.

I just read one

yesterday. It's.

gave a bonus

points

for something

pertaining to hot

tea. I'm like,

hot tea.

So I thought

okay Well,

maybe

somebody

liked

hot tea. No, it was

actually very

specific

because the

woman's daughter I

believe, had

been was

dying.

and

this

hot tea was a really big deal

that she [00:20:00] was

very thankful to

have

in the home

stretch

before she

passed

and things like that.

So

I hope that helps. So anyone

who's

interested,

just go to my

website,

markirelandauthor. com mark with

a

k, Ireland

like the

country, author.

markirelandauthor. com. You'll

find links

there

to my certified

medium

site. And there you'll

have

and actually you could

write me

from either

site. There's a contact page on

both

pages

either

the certified

medium site or

my

site

Just write

me from

there

and

there's links to other stuff

too, like

the

helping

Parents Heal

organization, so if you're a bereaved

parent

You've been

through

the

passing of a child

and you're

looking for support,

Go there

too.

You know, we

have 31,

000 members

worldwide.

this all

started just

like a little over a

decade

ago with

one

location with

like

30

people.

It's exploded

And now

we have

a conference

every

other year that draws

1100 people from around the world.

Selling

out an

entire

resort.

We

have,

um,

about 165

affiliate [00:21:00] chapters

worldwide

too.

So

you can meet

other

people who are going through

this and

forge new friendships

and,

um,

And

learn

about

some

things that

Will & Karen: that bring

hope.

Well, I commend you for that. It's, it's, it's an incredible help to those in need. So thank you for doing that. And Karen, you know, now where to go to apply. I think you would be perfect.

You would be perfect. You're exactly who he's talking about. So I think you should definitely think about it. Uh, so if anyone's out there listening and is interested. He, uh, mentioned, he mentioned the, um, the website where to go to apply, we'll also add it to our show notes. So all you need to do is go to skepticmetaphysician.

com and go to his episode page. You'll see the link directly laid in there. So it's easier for you to reach it.

Uh, okay. Um, you have a question? Yeah, I do. So you've had experience with all these medians and obviously your father, but aside from your father, have you had just a, a, Meeting that was so accurate that it just blew your mind.

Mark: Yeah, a number of them, [00:22:00] actually. Um, there's

a whole

chapter in the new

book, Persistence of the

Soul, that

features a reading

I

had

from

Tina Powers, who's

located in

Tucson,

Arizona,

And

it just blew me away. I mean, not only was

it

full of specific information,

but she

actually took

on the tone

and

intonation of my

son during one of the things

she

said.

It

was

like, my God, I'm

like, like, I was talking

directly to my

boy,

which is about the

most touching

thing you could have.

Will & Karen: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark: Um,

happen.

Yeah, I mean, I could give you some

examples of some of the

affirmations, but

it's

interesting, too,

because, you know, my dad always

said, Oh, Mark, you're

psychic or

my son's

psychic.

I've actually had

these

things

happen myself,

but not

often

and

only

a couple of times. So I kind of

got a

feel

for what it was like.

And I'll just give you

one

that

happened with me directly,

um,

that's

pretty

mind blowing.

So,

this Tina

Powers I

just

mentioned,

she and I were

invited to

go

for several years in a

row to,

uh, the Golden Gate

Spiritualist

Church in [00:23:00] San

Francisco.

and I would do a

talk

and she

would give messages

to people in the

congregation.

Now this is a kind of

a,

Will & Karen: of a,

 

little

Mark: a

church that's

open to these

things and the people

want this kind

of

stuff, you

know? Um, so,

we

are

preparing to

go

to

this, and she

says, Hey Mark, I

think you're going to get a

message,

you know, when we go

there, will you share it?

I'm like, well,

sure, if

I get something, I

will,

but I

didn't really

anticipate

anything.

And she kept bugging me

about this

over and

over,

And even to the day

we walked in the

church door, she's like,

hey,

Mark!

If you get

something, will you share it? And I'm

like,

sure,

Tina, I

told you I

would, I will.

Now this

church was founded in

1924 by a woman named

Florence Becker,

who I, from my

understanding,

had

abilities very

similar to

my father.

passed in,

I think, 1970.

Will & Karen: 1970.

Mark: So that's

pertinent to

this. So I go

into

the church and

sit down on a

bench to a piano or

organ. I

shut

my

eyes

and I'm just trying to prepare for my

talk, just

clearing my

mind and kind of

meditating.

And all of a sudden, this name

pops into my

mind, it's

[00:24:00] Max. I thought, Well,

that's interesting.

Max. And then

immediately,

Maxine. I thought, oh,

maybe it's

Maxine, not

Max.

Now I didn't hear

that. I

didn't

see

it. it.

just

popped in like an idea would come to you.

Okay?

So then,

I go

do my

talk, and at the

end,

I said, you know, Tina

made me

promise if I

got

anything, I would share

it with

the congregation. So I

have to ask,

did the names

Max or Maxine

mean anything to anyone

here?

And then the church

founder,

he's,

I'm sorry, the

church,

um,

pastor, he

says,

Well,

Max and Maxine

were

twins born to the

church founder,

Florence

Becker. They were delivered

stillborn,

and they grew up on the other

side.

He

says Only a

few long time board members even know about

this. It's a

secret.

And then so I'm

like, oh my god You know and and, it's such, I could see why Tina

pushed me,

because it was such a subtle thing to

me I could have said, Yeah, that's your

imagination, you know Whatever

Then the pastor

after the service he goes.

I want to show

you something. He took [00:25:00] me

upstairs

showed me a

painting

It was a

landscape

painting

that I believe was

done by

Florence

Becker, and it had a

long

road and two little figures at the End he goes

that's Max and Maxine

So at that moment, I just felt

like,

okay, you

know,

now I

kind of know

what it might feel

like when these

mediums are

telling me

stuff that's accurate,

what it could

be like. Now maybe

it's

different

for each person. That's

kind of what I've

discovered.

But to get

two

non

common

names and get

both of them

that are of

such uh,

pertinence to the founder of this church was wild. So, um,

there's an

example

directly. Now,

I'd

say, and I've had a lot

from

mediums over the time.

One

that was

pretty

recent

that was

pretty cool

though. Um,

I

was meeting

this meeting for

the first

time. Her name's Farrah Gibson.

And she

lives in the Phoenix

area.

And, uh, I was with another meeting friend, Michelle Clare,

and I

know

tons

of these

people now, and I get these

messages from them

all

the time.

But

we sit on the

dinner, and

I'm, we're just chatting.

and I

bring

up

my son Brandon, who had

passed. I

showed

Farrah a

picture of

[00:26:00] him.

And,

um,

and

I

said, you know,

he used to, he was a bass

player

And she says,

okay, he's

here.

He's butting in.

she goes,

he says, but his new

one had an extra string.

So his first

bass, which

I

still

have as a four string

bass. four months

before he passed

for his

birthday, we got him a

new.

bass with

a five

string

bass, which is what he wanted.

Talk about

an obscure

fact.

Will & Karen: Wow. yeah.

yeah.

Mark: And then she

goes out, she

goes and he

shows me you

holding a guitar and taking strings off

of it maybe restringing or something.

Will & Karen: or something.

Mark: Day or two

before I'd been in Prescott,

Arizona,

visiting somebody else I

knew,

we were walking

around

downtown to get lunch. And,

and, uh,

she

led

me to a music

store. We go

in there,

I'm

like, where are we

going In here? She goes,

oh.

I, I,

bought this used Martin

acoustic

guitar and I want

to

see

if they can,

uh,

string it for me.

So she asked the guy

and

he

says,

yeah,

I said,

I'm a

guitar player.

You

don't need to do that. I'll string it for you.

So I bought a set of

strings to get

[00:27:00] back

to her

place. I took

all

the

strings

off her guitar and

restrung it

for

her. So the Farah

got

that. I

mean,

That's

pretty

crazy. And

these are things that no

one even

knew at all. So those

are

recent

examples

of the kinds of

things, but

I, you

know, going into my

books, I

give a lot of detailed stuff.

I think

one of the most

compelling ones I

had

is

actually in chapter one of the

new book

because it

involves something from a

medium

that where I served as like a proxy sitter.

That

is. I had no

direct connection to

the

person who had

passed.

I was like an intermediary.

What had

happened

was,

this friend

from work, I was

in Phoenix,

she was in Sacramento.

Um,

she

reached

out to me by

email and

said,

I

need to

talk to

you right away, my brother

just

died.

And,

um,

I, I

replied back and

said, I'll,

I'll,

have to

contact you

later. I'm busy right

now. And

ironically, that

afternoon, I'd

set up a meeting with Deborah

Martin, who's another

medium.

And my

purpose for

meeting with her

was to review my dad's

book, which I later

[00:28:00] discovered,

um,

unbeknownst to

me, a

manuscript that

was unpublished

that I later

got

published.

But

she

felt she had

connected with my father

and

there was

some information

that he

wanted to

convey to me

through

her about how

this

book should be presented.

And a lot of it

ended up in the introduction and

preface. So

anyhow,

back

to

the

story of the

friend, the

friend in Sacramento

writes to

me, my

brother

died

on a motorcycle crash.

He died instantly. That's all I

knew.

just

that.

I said, look, I'll get back

to you

later. I can't right

now.

So I worked for like

half a day in

the

office. I

got in my

car, started

driving to

Debra

Martin's house, the

medium. And I

called

Linda

on the

way

and just said, Hey.

I'm

so

sorry to hear

this. I'll get

back to You You know,

when I'm

done, I have

another

meeting, but,

um,

you

know, she

said she

was really having a

tough time. Her brother was

Her

best friend

and reiterated that he

died in this motorcycle

crash

and that

he

she

said he

was hit and

killed

instantly. that's

that's all I knew.

So I get to Deborah's [00:29:00] I'm

like,

Hey, this

is really

strange that I'm here on this day

because

of a friend

of mine

that

works in another

office

reached out to

me because her

brother just

died.

And she goes, well, it's no

accident. I'm

supposed to, I need to

talk to her.

I'm like,

okay. I said, you

want me to call her

now?

She goes,

no,

let's do it later.

Um, let's do

what we plan

to do first

and then we'll come

back

to that. So

we sat down

and went

through this book stuff

and did

all

that.

I said,

okay, now do you

want

to.

have me call her now? And she

goes, I don't have enough

time

right now because

I had to

pick up my

daughter from

school, but why don't you and I

sit

down,

I'll

just see if I can

get

what I can

get.

So she took a pad of

paper and a

pen,

sat with

me in

one

chair and her

next to

me.

And she

says,

what's, what's

your friend's name?

I said, Linda.

She goes, what's the

brother's name? I

said, I don't

know.

And that's all I

gave her.

Within

seconds, she's

like, well, this involved a motorcycle

accident.

This

young, this man was killed

instantly.

Um, he

wants her

to know that his soul left his body

immediately, and he

did

not suffer at all.

And

then she [00:30:00] started giving me stuff I didn't

know, like,

that's

all

I

knew.

She, so

she goes, um, showing

me,

um, like a

red ribbon or

something,

like

maybe it went

over his

casket.

And he's also showing

me, he says, the

little

kids, something about the

little

kids.

And then a bath

time or a

bathtub

with the

little

kids.

And

then,

um,

some

other

things, but

those are, that's what I

remember right

now.

Anyhow.

so

I'm

finishing up. I said, okay,

well, um, I'll give you her number so you

can reach out to

her later today.

Will & Karen: later today.

Mark: And so, and Debra did call

her

later and finish giving her a full

reading,

which was

phenomenal.

But so I'm

driving

back

after this and

I said, Hey, Linda, you know,

my

friend

Debra, she's a medium.

She just

gave me

this information. She got.

the fact that your brother died

instantly and that

he

didn't

suffer. And I didn't tell

her

that, you

know, how he had died

And I

said, you know, she

said something about a red ribbon. Was there a red

ribbon that

went

over his coffin or

anything?

yeah, his

motorcycle buddy bought

a red

banner or ribbon that went

over top of his

[00:31:00] casket.

And then, um,

I

said, she said

also,

he said something about the little

kids

And she

said, Oh

yeah, my brother had

suffered

through a

period of

drug abuse

And we

had to

basically

take his children

in for a while

and

we literally called

them the

little

kids

And their

favorite act. I said,

well, it

was something to do with

baths.

Their favorite activity was

bath time. They have water

wars where

they sink toy boats and all

this stuff. So, and

there were

other

things that she

told

me, I just

can't

remember

right now that were also

accurate.

And

then,

um, you

know, she'd called Linda later

that

night

with more

information, like,

um,

thank

you for

changing the

music at

my

service from

country

western

to a hard

rock. Cause he hated country

Western. he loved hard

rock.

Just, So that's an example

of pretty extraordinary

mediumship where

he, she, they didn't

even have

direct

communication with

anyone that knew

any of this

stuff.

So she wasn't

reading

my

mind, because I didn't have any of that.

and we [00:32:00] had no

way of

knowing

anything. So,

I just

say that's a

pretty good example

of, of,

solid,

Will & Karen: evidential

mediumship. I would say so. Absolutely. So it sounds like most of these people that you are talking about have been conscious mediums. Have you done anything with trans mediums?

Mark: Actually, my dad had that ability.

So, I, I'm in

possession of

a bunch of

trans

work

that

he did

over

30 years. Now, he had this class

where

people would sit, and they were more

like

teaching

lectures,

and

there was no

money

exchanged. It

was just a

free

thing for people who

wanted more of that

kind of teaching. It was philosophical, life direction kind of

teaching. It was,

Will & Karen: It was,

it

Mark: it

was along the

lines, like if you're reading

some of the

teachings from the

Beatitudes in

the New

Testament, it's

more like

that kind of feel

to

it, you

know,

um,

the Sermon

on the Mount stuff,

But not

exactly,

but

it

was, it felt like

that, you

know, um, and I've

met, I

think I've attended,

um, One

other trans medium.

I don't even remember

her name. It's been quite a

while,

[00:33:00] but

not

many of the mediums

today do

that type of

approach where they're

going into the deep trans.

Will & Karen: trans,

Mark: One

person

I know

who

does it, who's really a highly

respected and legitimate

medium is Suzanne

Giesemann.

She's

actually a former,

um,

high

ranking

naval official.

Will & Karen: a corner colonel and

Marines or something like

Mark: who never, yeah, way, way

up there, but

she never would have even

thought

of something like this. She knew

nothing about any of this stuff until

her,

um,

daughter in

law,

I'm sorry, her stepdaughter

was struck by

lightning and killed

along

with and

she was

like

eight months

pregnant. So the baby

died too

and

she got pulled into

this and it was

kind of a

innate natural ability for her

and she's

very level

headed, very down to

earth,

You know

anybody

who

thinks she's

not woo at

all

but she

does this

stuff and she's very

accurate and

she's

does the transmedium ship stuff,

Um, in fact, I have to credit her

because

In our organization,

helping

Parents Here, we have, we

use the term, [00:34:00] you

know, bereaved

parents.

Will & Karen: We,

Mark: She

encouraged us

to

change it to shining light

parents

or

making a

shift

from being

a

bereaved parent to a

shining light parent,

meaning, you know, more hopeful and living life

fully and

full of

joy and

hope.

as

opposed to just

being down in a

hole for the

Will & Karen: for the rest of your life. Right, right. It's funny, we actually have an outreach to Suzanne to see if she'll come on the show.

So hopefully she'll, she'll say yes and we'll have

Mark: Well, I'm talking to

her on Friday, so

Will & Karen: So I'll

nudge her.

That would be wonderful. Yeah, we, uh, I listened to her story on another show and I thought this, she's be, she'd be perfect, perfect to come on the show. So, um, and I, I, Wasn't gonna surprise you with it, but hey, cat's out of the bag.

No, that's all right. That's exciting. Yeah, it is. Um, so, um, gosh, I don't know which direction to head in. I've tied your tongue. Yes, you did. So, well, I have a question kind of getting back to the certification. Do you have like a lot of people that [00:35:00] don't make the cut?

Mark: Yeah,

um, and really, that's an

important thing to consider

because, um, if I want

the

best, or at

least people who can prove that they

have

this

at a

specific level or

higher,

um, then that should be the

case,

You know, so I would say right now,

15 to

Will & Karen: now, 15 20

percent may be passing.

Okay. Wow. Okay. That's good. That's encouraging. Uh, on both sides of the coin that, that, that many are passing, but also that, that few are passing because it's, it's been more discerning. So now if someone wanted to access those, is, is there a list somewhere that you have that people can either in need of a, of a legit medium can find these

folks?

Mark: Yeah, back to my website. There's a

link

right on

it,

Um, that they can easily

find on the

Certified Medium page. So rather than

give you

four or five,

you know,

URLs,

just

go

to my page,

markirelandauthor. com

and you'll find a link to helping

parents

heal

a

link to the

certified

medium site.

Link to videos of my dad

on the

Steve

Allen show in

1971 [00:36:00] doing

a psychic demonstration.

That's

really cool.

Um, And a

lot of other stuff too.

I've got a

media page here with

some of my

other interviews a

documentary

When I

was on Discovery Channel with a

medium

at the University of Arizona.

So there's

all

kinds

of interesting

stuff there for people, but just go to

that one

site, you'll find links to

Will & Karen: to all

the

others.

Sounds great. Okay, like, uh, I'll be there. Don't, I, I, believe me, me too, and I know exactly what you're thinking about. Um, well, so you have had some sparks of psychicness yourself, and of course, your father is a very well renowned psychic medium. Anyone else in your family, or is it just kind of the two of you?

Mark: Now, you know, the people that

research this have

found it

does

run in family

lines.

So whether it's a genetic

thing or a

socialization thing,

I'm not sure. Maybe a

combination,

but,

um,

My dad's brother,

Robert, he

also was

very psychic and also a

medium. He

had a church in Tucson.

Uh, he

passed a number of years ago, but

he

was

[00:37:00] actually the first

person I

went to

after my

son

died,

um,

and I was

looking for some

connection.

and, uh,

it was like

three days

after

his

passing

that,

Um, my

uncle and I

connected when I was in the

mortuary by cell phone. We

connected

and we didn't know

the

cause of

death at the time.

And

he's like,

uh, Mark,

you know, I'm going to let you know that I

tried to

connect last

night. I tried to

meditate, but I

couldn't get

anything. But this morning I

was

doing my

meditation

and your

dad

came to me

And he wanted you to know

that he

was there for

Brandon when

Brandon

transitioned

and

that

Brandon was a

little

confused, but your

dad

helped him

adjust.

Brandon

wanted you to know that you're the

best parents he

ever could have

had,

which is the

nice, warm,

fuzzy thing we

like to

hear, but that he gave you the

evidence. He

said,

your dad said Brandon's death was caused

by

a lack of

oxygen in his bloodstream

that

causes heart to fail.

Two days

later, I got

the autopsy

results. The

physician called

me and said, you

know, your

son's

death was caused by a

severe

asthma

attack that

drove his blood

oxygen level down and

caused cardiac

arrest.

[00:38:00] So we didn't

know the

cause of death beforehand. So

yeah, my

uncle

had that,

and

he was

really

maybe the

catalyst for me

getting

reinterested in the field and

back into

my dad's

world.

My

grandmother, my dad's

mom,

also

became a

transmedium. Um, this

was later

in

life.

but

she

had that

ability, and

my

dad's grandma. father's

side. I

guess you used to

read tea

leaves and stuff like

that.

But, um,

my,

I think as my dad

grew up as

a kid, you

know,

this was

not

embraced by

his

dad at all.

And, uh, he was kind of

rebellious

about it because he just felt

like,

Hey, I'm not

being

respected or

whatever.

But it was when he was a young

kid, like,

as

my grandmother said, even at, starting at

age three,

they could tell that he had this

system degree, They were in

rural

Ohio, didn't have a

telephone or

anything,

and

he'd say, uh,

Grandpa's

coming, you know,

and then Grandpa would

be there

within, you know, a certain

period of

time. It was very

quick.

And

they actually

started planning

meals for

when my

dad would say, Grandpa's coming.

And one

time he

said, Grandpa's

[00:39:00] coming, but he'll,

he'll,

have

shaved his beard

off.

And his

brothers are like,

oh, you're Crazy

And they called him

Crazy

Dick. You

know, you're

crazy, crazy,

dick.

There's no

way

Grandpa loves that beard.

He'd never shave it off.

Grandpa

gets there, it's

shaved off. It's

like, oh, he had been

making taffy and

it got, the beard got

dipped

Will & Karen: dipped in the taffy, so

Mark: to shave it

off. So anyhow,

it

Will & Karen: Wow. the

family. Yeah, generational. Absolutely. I love it. Now, you mentioned your son, and I've been meaning to come back to this question because as a grieving father, I would think the first thing I would do is I would want to have as much contact with my past son as possible.

Besides your uncle, was there any other interactions that you've had with your son since his passing?

Mark: Oh yeah, a bunch of us,

but I'd say the

first one was maybe even

before my

uncle. I can't remember because it's

been a

while now,

but

I

wanted

a direct

connection.

and

so I

went into a

darkened room, which is actually

a walk in

closet,

shut the

door and tried

to

get into a

meditative

state, And I just

thought, you know, [00:40:00]

let me

know,

give me

a

connection

of some sort. And I

sat

there

and within a

short period of time, I saw my

son's

smiling

face,

like it's scrolling

across my mind's eye. And

he was

like

glowing, and I could

feel

joy and

peace, and like this

joy

sense

and

that feels really good. But then right

after that, I

got this thimble. Which

was a

cross with

an oval

loop at the

top.

And I'd

seen

people wear those, but

I didn't really know

what they

were, so I had to actually go

Google it.

I found

out it's

an

Ankh. It's the

oldest

cross in human

history, dating back

maybe 5,

000

years

to

ancient Egypt. and the

lower

portion

represents

physical life, and the

oval loop

represents

eternal

life.

So I

got a puzzle to

solve,

Which

really satisfied me as a

more

analytical type

person,

where I had to

go,

see, what is this? You

know, what

does that mean?

And it gave

me

meaning

that

I,

you

know,

that

really touched me. And I felt

like that was the first

of

what turned out to be a

number

of

connections.

Another one I [00:41:00] had.

now this

is

a

year and a half

later,

I went to bed one

night and I asked for a

dream visit and I asked

to

remember it

like in a prayerful

way, I

asked to

be able to

remember

Will & Karen: it.

Mark: And that

night I

had

the most vivid dream I'd ever had in my

life.

It was like

more

real

than waking

reality and

he's

sitting

there

In this

room, it's a

three

walled

white

room and where

the

fourth

wall should be

is

infinity.

It's like the

rest of the

universe.

was strange. It

was like a

place

to meet in the

middle

between the

two

realms, it seemed,

and it was a very

short

chat.

but the

chat isn't what's

most

important.

What, was

that

feeling and the

connection and,

the love,

what really

made this

More compelling in terms of

knowing

this

was

real,

a woman

reached out to me just within the

last

year and she

had

read my

first book, Soul Shift, where I tell the

story of

that

dream visit,

And she

said, I had a very, I

had the

same experience, but

I wasn't sure

whether

to [00:42:00] believe it.

and then I turned to page,

whatever,

128

of Soul Shift.

And I read

this,

she says, her

Son, who had

died

was

in

a three wall

white

room

in the

middle,

and where the

fourth wall should have

been was

infinity.

And

she

met her son in the

exact

same

way.

So she then

knew it was

real. And

for me, it was just

icing on the cake.

Will & Karen: Right. Absolutely.

Mark: And

that's not to

mention all the

medium readings I

had. First

book,

Soul

Shift,

I document four of

those that were done,

and the

high

degree of

accuracy,

and the

very specific

stuff,

like

how

he died,

and

um,

things that he liked to

do

and,

and,

and hobbies and

things like

that.

Um, and

then there was just

so

many

other

things. It's

just

it's been a

lot of years.

So, I

mean, it's

just

I've been

very gifted that

way I think

there's a lot of parents

have, have

suffered and

maybe haven't

had

the

That kind of a

blessing

that I've had that

has

helped

so

much,

um, and at this

stage, I

don't even

ask [00:43:00] for

that stuff, you know, but

I still get

it

um, whether it be

through a

medium

friend or just

like,

a

feeling or

something like

that

But

um, you

know, I think some

people too, they

may

get

signs or something

like that, but

they don't

recognize them

either They're

they're

just

Dismissing it

as like,

okay, I'm just imagining that, or that's

not significant,

You know,

and other

Will & Karen: other people do

the other. They're like,

everything's

fine. Right.

Mark: So, but I think

being open to that And

saying, you know, really,

this is beyond,

something's beyond

coincidence, you know,

Will & Karen: you know,

give it some credence.

Yeah. Depends on the day. I could go either way. So yeah, that makes sense. That's true. Yeah. Well, uh, mark, you've given us so many reasons for someone to visit your site, whether it's, um, helping parents heal or, uh, the list of legit mediums or, I mean, there's so many different things on your platform that, that, uh, would be of huge benefit for.

For those folks that are listening or watching right now, one last time, give us that website so people can [00:44:00] write it down.

Mark: Sure. And the books too, for somebody

who's not familiar with this

stuff, are looking for

like,

what

is the evidence? It's

in those books.

Um, it's

markirelandauthor. com, Mark with a

k

Ireland, like

the

country

author.

Will & Karen: author.com. Alright, and can they get the books on your website or is it, are they on Amazon or how can they get those

books?

Mark: They're on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, but

I have

links to

them on my site. So

once again, if they

just go there,

they'll

find the links

directly to the

books on

Will & Karen: on whichever

platform they want

to buy them from.

Right, and a little trick I found was when I was researching him, I found that you actually have a bonus free chapter on your

site. So,

Mark: I

do.

Yeah, In

fact, that was the

chapter I was

mentioning,

the Tina

Powers reading. So

I

put that

one

on there.

just to

give people a

Will & Karen: a sample so they

can taste it and

see if they want to read more.

Absolutely. And if you pay attention, uh, future episode, I might just read that chapter out there. So, because I found it fascinating. So, yeah, we'll be in touch. Mark, thank you so much for coming on. Uh, if you [00:45:00] didn't get that website, uh, just go to skepticmenofposition. com. You can see, you can find the links directly laid in there.

So it's easy for you to connect, but, uh, this has been. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you for what you're doing. Uh, it's a, it's a much needed service for the world and we salute you. So thanks for coming on and being so

wonderful. appreciate

Mark: me a

platform to

Will & Karen: to

share that

with

people. So thank

you.

All right. Well, uh, we'll see you again soon.